Was escorted off flight for complaining about 1 hour delay
 

Hi,

I want to ask everyone here if you have any advice for me regarding an airline/travel incident that happened to me yesterday. Basically I was escorted off a flight by police officers for complaining to a flight attendant while a flight was on the tarmac for an hour waiting for a gate to open.

I took an American Airlines flight which arrived at Washington Reagan airport and had to sit on the tarmac for about an hour because the gates were full. After 30 minutes, I complained to a flight attendant on board, and asked what was causing the delay, how much longer the delay would last, and what kind of compensation the airline would offer passengers for the delay. She said that she didn't know any of this, and when I described the situation as "....ing ridiculous," she said that I shouldn't swear at her unless I wanted the police to meet us at the gate. I said that I didn't swear "at" her, and that this is America, we have freedom of speech here, and I would used whatever adjectives I wanted to describe this situation, even though she might find that distasteful. The whole conversation was in a normal tone and not loud at all... actually kind of quiet, although other passengers in the adjacent rows could hear. The flight attendant left abruptly and apparently called police because when the plane finally got to the gate everyone was told to retake their seats and I was singled out and escorted off the plane by two police officers. They ordered me to sit at one of the lounge chairs, where I explained what had happened. I was not arrested or charged with anything, although the lead officer told me that swearing in Virginia is a misdemeanor. I was also told that I could be charged with "starting a riot" since I had told the flight attendant that I would tell other passengers nearby me to complain to the gate agent along with me. I was followed by the officers to the baggage claim area where I got my luggage. Two other passengers came up to me and showed their support. One of them gave me her cell phone number. I left after getting the officers' badge numbers and names.

I told the officers that this was nothing more than an intimidation tactic by the airline and flight attendant, although they couldn't care less. By the time I was leaving, they were getting into an argument with another passenger and his wife from the same flight. What do you think my first step in pursuing redress for this should be? I plan on contacting a few lawyers. I've never had any problems like this with airlines before. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Even without the cursing, I've seen flight crews and heard them throw a fit when customers complain about a delay in flight, even when done in a joking manner. As far as I've observed it or heard about this, this happened way more often on US airlines, but never on any of my international flights.

My advice: don't curse and you are less likely to get ejected.

Although it is easier said than done, swearing rarely helps ones cause in such instances. It allows others to duck out of the real dispute in hand and play the "abuse" card.

While I wasn't witness to what occurred I can tell you cursing never helps anything.
cheers
Howie

Amazing but true. I saw a "No @#!" sign on the Va Beach Boardwalk on 9/2/07. Hampton Roads area is very appealing but for its extreme Redness.

Tis true, just about everything imaginable in Virginia is a misdemeanor. :td: I think you need to chalk this one up as a lesson in life and move on. Oh yeah, perhaps curbing the obscenities will help. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar...

Did the airline cause the delay? No. I think it was actually the airport company who provides the gates to the airline. Cabin Crew are sick to death of being cursed at because of things that are beyond their control. We understand patience wears thin among people in these occurances, but bare in mind the Crew are right there with you going through the same frustration. Their day has now been made longer, their passengers they have been working hard to build a rapport with for the duration of the flight are now left with a tarnished view and to top it off a passenger always wants to know what is going to be done to compensate them.

IMHO you didnt deserve to be taken off the flight in that way and I would not have contacted sucurity as my company is very thorough with its training and threat management and the threat module is to be followed at all times. Be rest assured that FA will have to answer to the company in question for requesting assistance of that nature. HOWEVER - unless the Cabin Crew were actually to blame for the delay or the company itself - I would take much more care in the future to mind my P's and Q's. I doubt you would accept being spoken to like that in any situation so why not be an adult about the situation like the other 300 odd people onboard?

When you curse, you play into the hands of people who want to discredit you. They'll say that you were out of control, "frightening people," or whatever -- and your own words will prove their point. When a confrontation of some sort looms, you need to be totally cool from start to finish. Your mistake, swearing, cost you your credibility.

Bruce

The FA wasn't the target of the curse. The pax, however, was the target of the FA's petty acts. This is just another example of why it is improper to grant quasi-police powers to FAs. As noted, FAs get frustrated along with the pax and have been known to act petulantly against the interest of those who pay their salaries.

Further, FAs have little appreciation for the real world, as reflected in the "would you like to be spoken to" comment above. F-bombs fly when things go wrong in the America. I'm not suggesting it's right, but that's the reality. Calling the police to detain a pax because the FAs sensativities were hurt over such a trivial use is amazing. If the OP version is true, and if we could peer into the heart of the FA, I would not be suprised to learn the real reason she called the police is that she didn't mind the swear as much as it was the pax's subsequent dismissal of her complaint. Note, she didn't feel the need for police involvement until the pax - gasp - told her this was America.

There is little recourse here for the OP. He may wish to get a copy of the police incident report to determine if the FA lied in what she reported to them and learn if there are any false reporting remedies in VA.

Otherwise, the OP should file a complaint with the airline and hope they care enough to stick it in her file. Maybe if she has some past incidents she can be culled from the herd. I definately don't want to fly with this FA onboard. She seems to lack a certain emotional stability. If this is how she reacts to a single, softly spoken curse, then I doubt she will be of any value in a real emergency.

BTW: in case the OP didn't get it the other 5 times - more flies with sugar ...

As others have said, swearing doesn't help.. then, playing the "freedom of speech" line doesn't help at all. You don't have freedom of speech when it comes to a private company on their property.. That is probably what pushed her over the edge moreso than the swearing.

Questioning someones authority, which is what you indirectly did, is never good. Much like someone told me to do when facing someone who can make your life difficult (cops, flight crews), do what they say, document, and report later. Its not worth going to jail/getting kicked off/getting banned.

I'm not a lawyer, but unless you asked the police "Am I free to leave" they have the right to "question" you. It would be very hard to prove false arrest or unlawful imprisonment.

Did the FA step over the line to "teach you a lesson?" Sure. But, if you press this further in all likelihood AA will circle the wagons around the FA, and could perhaps go as far as suspending you FF account and refusing to transport you in the future.

Plus, in the court of public opinion you could lose in the press too when your own words are used against you.

I would make sure I got a copy of the police report to make sure there are no errors, but then I'd let it go.

geheim, welcome to FlyerTalk!

Please keep us posted as to how this eventually plays out.

You got what you deserved. Please do not abuse the 1st Amendment, it's under enough attack as it is. If you can't speak without being a foul-mouthed lout then zip it.

Clear enough ?

It seems that way too many people travelling think they should be treated as "first class" when their behavior doesn't indicate anything but Trailways Bus. Just because someone bought a ticket, doesn't give them the right to verbally abuse another. Even though it may seem as it was one little remark, how many remarks do these people have to put up with over the course of the day?

How True

Im wondering if the OP feels they are due Compensation, then what do they feel they owe to the other passengers on that flight, since everyone was required to retake their seats and were delayed even further getting off the Flight Because of the OPs mouth.

Sorry OP you were Way out of line! Not only for the lack of tack and lousy choice of Language used. But once you are on teh ground theres very little any carrier can do. Besides they want you OFF that plane more then you want to get off. Till its at the gate and unloaded they cant get it back in the air earning more $$$.

There was a Great post by an AA employee who assigns the gates basically just cause a gate is open doesnt mean it can be used, they are alot of other considerations that have to be taken into consideration, eg, is the gate able to handle that type of aircraft (not every gate can handle every type of aircraft), what type of planes are parked at the gates next to that 1 or will be,could be the wings will hit each other or not allow another plane to park or move back.

Till I read that post I also didnt understand why we simply couldnt be assigned any free gate. Now I know its Not so simple as simply putting your car into any parking spot. More like youre driving a large SUV and the only spots available have a sign Compacts or Economy cars only- sure you can put a Hummer into there but it will stick onto the road way and cause every vechile trying to drive problems and make that 2 way path into a 1 way

So that's why you made a scene? To get the digits?

Agree.

Think about the model of riding in an airplane. From the minute someone drops us off, there's a cop telling us to move it. In the airport, it's hurry up, get your things on the x-ray belt so you don't stop the line. Oh yeah, and you better be at the gate 20 minutes before departure. On the plane, we're told to hurry up with settling in and/or being told to step out of the aisle so others can walk through. From the moment we're on the airport grounds, it's go GO GO!

I don't see wanting to get off a plane sitting on a tarmac as being uppity or a desire to be treated "first class." How many stories have we seen about planes, regardless of the circumstances, get left on the tarmac for hours (JetBlue, anyone?)? Listen on your next flight as the plane inches towards the final parking spot for the clicks of the seat belts prior to the plane being in its final parking position.

While the OP was wrong in dropping the f-bomb, did the situation really warrant usage of resources set to handle true emergencies such as a terrorist act or a plane crash?

It's only a matter of time that we're going to hear about an incident that didn't have proper response due to one of these retaliatory, power-trip things some (not all) crew members will employ because they want to show who's boss.

I see the point regarding the push, push..hurry up, but don't forget all the people who are still holding up security lines with liquids and all the other things they shouldn't have (as if they have been in a coma the , the last 5 years and don't know better),,or those who wait till the last minute and now think they should jump the line. The sooner you get settled in your seat, the sooner we all take off.

Assuming that:

1. You were calm and in control.

2. You were not under the influence of any mind-altering substances (because you will be investigated).

Then the correct reponse is "Officer, I was expressing a reasonable view using reasonable language. Under the circumstances I think YOU SHOULD CONSIDER the possibility that the only way the FA could have interpreted my comments in such a manner is if that person was under the influence of a mind-altering substance."

Of course, there's a prior causality for the long lines in the first place: nonsenical rules that don't comport to the fact of reality about terrorism, terrorist modus operandi, and credible threats.

Why is this forum subjected to so much anti-American sentiment? I understand that many of you dislike things that make us special, such as the First Amendment. But you don't need to get lost on that anti-American sentiment in every posting.

At least one of these two is appropriate:

:rolleyes: :confused:

I do agree with SBRower.
I flew fly #170 from NRT to LAX. Those FA's telling customers to close the luggage compartment themself since she (FA) was not able to to do it...LOL (FA told us to do their job) She commanded e1 to seat to stand up to eat just like we were kids. My girlfriend & I just were so scared to open our mouth, we did not want to say a wrong word that may put us under arrest at the gate.
It's sad that they can abuse the power to harrass their customers...we were wondering how the foreign customers took it???
What a diifferent compare to Singapore air, EVA air, Thai Air..or any other asia airlines. They don't need police, they just need a beautiful smile and politeness.

Mistake 1: The OP chose to use the F word
Mistake 2: The FA threatened to use an unnecessary level of security
Mistake 3: The OP chose to argue his position
Mistake 4: The FA followed through on her threat and unnecessarily employed said level of security

From a pax standpoint, I can completely undertand the extreme frustration of being delayed and not knowing any timing information other than "not yet." I've used a few choice words on occasion while flying, but I take care not to use them in a way that could be deemed threatening by a "reasonable" person.

From an FA standpoint, I know that all it takes is that one last passenger to push them over the edge after a particularly delayed or difficult day. They're human, after all. The OP may have been that last straw, however calm his statements were.

In the end, both parties share equally in the events that led up to this outcome, however the FA (being in the professional role at the time) had an obligation to act accordingly by not abusing her power due to frustration.

But you'll catch even more flies with sh*t! :D

So you agree he got what he deserved? He deserved to get booted by the airline and maybe even prohibited from returning. But cops? No way. It seems lately LEOs are becoming lackeys of the airlines and TSA, forgetting that god gave them a measure of logic and reason, and after hearing a story like this the cop should have arrested the FA for making a false police report. Claims like this are why people don't respect airline or airport security anymore.

You lost me when you went "vulgar." I am no angel, but I know the time and place for "my" poor vocabulary. While this is America, "free speech" is often misunderstood. Personally, had I been sitting within hearing distance, I would have agreed with your exasperation, but still would have thought to myself "what a jerk."

What do we expect these crews to do? They don't want to be standing there, EVERYONES punching bag. The problem is much bigger than they can control. They are NOT there for our abuse.

If you want to curse at someone, do it in a letter to the CEO and your elected officials that care more about fundraising than fixing the airline mess.

Did you know that at DCA our Senate and House have a special free parking lot next to the terminal. Give me a break. This is where they park the cars that they just filled up "TAX FREE" at the Capital building. Take your vulgarities out on them.

I don't see any anti-American sentiment in this thread.

I don't know whether the flight attendant acted appropriately. I wasn't there, and we've only heard one side of the story. The OP's swearing obviously didn't help. Everybody on the plane was in a bad mood under the circumstances.

I'm a frequent critic of police practices, but it's not clear to me that the police did anything wrong. They didn't personally observe the interaction with the flight attendant, so they needed to investigate. It appears that the OP was not arrested or charged with a crime. Being led off of the flight probably was embarrassing, but there's no indication that it caused any harm or even any inconvenience.

The most appalling part of the story is the delay waiting for a gate, which is what made everybody so irate in the first place.

Sorry but you are wrong...

there was an incident where at an awards show one of the guest said this is "fu**ing" good. This is no obscenity, as the word is a not a verb and not imply intercourse but underlines the following adjective. Similar to bloody.

The case went all the way up and the station was cleared for not having it edited out.

English language is very complex, so is its interpretation

Actually I wonder why I am not spelling it out, because this is another joke we are subjecting ourselves to. Every one knows the word, so why play htis game ?

How is the post anti-American? That is just a stunning interpretation.

Welcome to FlyerTalk :)

I'm curious how often you fly to think that the flight attendant would have info about compensation for delays. Have you ran across this before? I can't recall a flight attendant ever providing information on compensation due to delays.

I flew into DCA two weeks ago and we had an hour delay on the ground, due to a combination of lightning and then no available gate. Asking about compensation would be rather low on my list of questions to ask.

Have you asked this question of flight attendants on previous delays?

I think the thread title is misleading. It makes it sound as though the OP was somehow prevented from flying. Once the aircraft arrives at the gate, it is no longer an active "flight". You were not prevented from traveling in any way.

Heh heh. 300 odd people onboard is a pretty good description of some of my recent flights. :p

I'm amazed at all these posts, really. Along with the degradation in manners, vocabulary in general has decreased among the general population. While vulgar, curse words are heard much more frequently in the past.

That said, no one but the OP, FA and folks sitting in the area are privvy to what actually transpired, the tone of voice, the decibel level, etc to denote whether this was just a generic comment or could be mistakenly taken as directed at the FA, etc. As such, I'll refrain from frying the OP with the rest of you.

I'd get the police report as someone mentioned above, ensure its accurate and attach it to a letter to the airline requesting an explanation for why a comment to an FA can be taken to such an extreme that would get you escorted off the flight, interrogated and placed in a humiliation position, etc.

He did indicate he "complained to a flight attendant on board", and was complaining to her when he was swearing.

I agree the FA overreacted, but let's at least keep things in their proper context.

Especially not people who themselves are powerless to repair the situation and powerless to discuss/provide the remedies for it.

The flight attendant probably wanted to reach the gate as much as the pax. If she misconnected to her next assignment, she might have enspent dead time in the airport (not at full pay rate, if paid at all). The gate agent he was inimating they should complain to would have been open & conducting business for the next flight, not for his inbound flight.

Before the thread gets totally derailed, here is my take...

1) the use of foul language never helps with anything - and trust me, I've lost it plenty of times myself, so I know of what I speak.

2) AA Flight Attendants are problematic - so are the UA crews. They are often unprofessional, mean and will use security nonsense to do anything they want. I actively avoid both carriers, and you learned a hard lesson why. Next time, find an airline whose staff have an interest in treating passengers like customers - you can choose from Continental and Delta, and I think that's pretty much it for the mainline carriers.

3) The cop was just being a bully - and no surprise there. You can file an official complaint against him and it will become part of his permanent record - do this remotely in case he decides to arrest you for the swearing/riot charges :)

4) If you have money to burn, hire a lawyer to send a nastygram to both AA and the MWAA cops - the lawyer should be able to push AA to either offer some compensation, or at least make them consider how their crew over-reactions are starting to annoy customers and cost them some business

5) if you don't want to spend anything on this, write AA yourself...while it is appropriate to point out the FA's gross overreaction and abuse of authority, it would help to apologize for your use of a cussword. A well placed mea culpa never hurts.

6) you can sue, but it will cost alot of money and I'm not sure you would get much more from either party than a well written complain letter and official complaint/reprimand for the cop would deliver for you

7) Cursing is free speech and you can curse all you want - any local/state ordinance to the contrary is probably un-Constitutional. However, exercising your 1st Amendment rights does not always resolve customer service disputes in your favor

I worked in legal services. I met a man who was being deposed (interviewed by the opposing side's witnesses under oath). The court reporter, who, like most, did not work for the firm and was simply an independent contractor tried to swear the guy in (you know, "raise your right hand and promise to tell the truth"). The guy asked her a ton of questions: "Are you qualified? Who do you work for? How do I know you can even swear me in? What gives you the right do this? Are you biased? Where were you trained? Who pays you?"

She broke out crying and wouldn't return to transcribe the interview.

The attorneys took it to the judge to require the deposition to be done in front of him. The guy swore up and down about how reasonable he was being, how nice he was, how he wasn't raising his voice and was just asking a couple questions.

The judge ruled against him. His girlfriend, hearing this, started to rush the bench, saying "the judge was just as corrupt as the rest of them."
She was stopped by security.

Since then, I've never allowed myself to believe one side of the story when someone tells me about how their actions led to what they say was an unreasonable consequence.

So you get to decide what speech is acceptable? Wow, when did Justice Wally Bird get elevated to the Supreme Court? Congratulations!

That being said, as long as the aviation industry is going to create a system where people are held in planes for hours at a time for poor reasons and not allowed to leave then what do you expect?

I plan to give a situation like that not much more than an hour and then I will call a local TV station to report that passengers are being held against their will...

Exactly how does one "abuse" a fundamental right? Of course, the airline can't violate 1st Amendment rights by definition since it is not the government. However, I'm really disturbed when someone talks in terms of "abusing" a 1st Amendment right.