Dirty Bins
 

Ok, I just can't believe that no one seems to care about the cleanliness of the bins for security. Ok, here's what I noticed on a recent flight from PDX to LAX, it's disgusting:

1. Guy put his shoes in the bin with dog (or cat) crap on the bottom.
2. Hairs of questionable origins in the bins
3. Some sort of goo in the bin
4. Gum stuck in the bin

So I told the TSA supervisor... that worked well, they didn't seem to care. Honestly I'm just curious how many viruses and crap are transfered this way. In fact I would bet that the bins are more dangerous than the actual threat of liquid explosives.

Passengers should not be removing their shoes at all.

Don't like dirty bins? File a complaint about the TSA's disgusting little shoe fetish.

What!? Spiff, that is just ridiculous, can't you see how removing shoes is our first line of defense!!!! :D

Nonsense.

A shoe-clad roundhouse should be our first line of defense against disgusting domestic terrorists. ;)

Shouldn't one be more concerned with having to walk across a dirty floor than dirty bins?

The TSA sites I frequent will not let you put your shows in the bins.

Put 'em in and then put your jacket + KHIAAH (or KHIAI) baggie on top of them before the $45,000 Workfare person on preload detail can say anything.

Afterwards, in addition to filing a complaint about shoes and liquids, file a complaint about HTF the TSA can justify paying someone to do this job when they are always whining about not having enough money to properly harass the traveling public. How are those office decorations and lifetime awards going, Kippie?

That point has been made many, many times before.

The TSA's reaction (including some individual screeners) is basically "suck it up."

Or, for a more simple and realistic solution, how about having the bins washed and sanitized every night or several times per day in a giant dishwasher and / or UV sanitizer.

Or just leave the shoes on. I'm easy.

I wish they at least offered "shoe bins" and bins for everything else. It is so gross to have to put my baggie of things that goes in my mouth (meds, lip stuff, whatever) in a bin that has/had shoes in it. :eek: gross.

Recently, an article describe how researchers had swabbed THE BOTTOM OF WOMEN'S PURSES to test for microbiologically infective contamination.

The results shocked everyone. Purses, possibly because they are frequently set on the floor in public /hospital bathrooms ARE THE FILTHIEST MOST DANGEROUSLY CONTAMINATED ITEM THEY FOUND, EVEN TOPPING SHOES!! Could it be some of the filth on shoes is walked off while a purse is carried from one place to another.

Most EVERY purse deposited in the bins puts whatever it collected from the floor around the toilet at the gas station or airport. WOMEN SHOULD NEVER EVER PUT A PURSE ON A COUNTER OR TABLE AT HOME. Even touching the bottom of a purse before you eat at a restaurant sets the woman up to ingest what her hands found there.

You know, I was going to mention that the outside of purses and briefcases, laptop bags, etc are also contaminated--but primarily from things like being in these gross shoe bins. TBH, I don't know any women who would ever place their purse on the floor of a bathroom anywhere, but got an especially big laugh at your reference to "gas station bathrooms" LOL. OMG, no woman I have ever met would put her purse on the floor in a gas station!

There are hooks and shelves in nearly all bathrooms for purses, briefcases, laptop bags etc.

I do agree that any kind of personal bags should never be on tables, etc if one has previously placed them on the floor--which I almost never do anyway. Come to think of it, women who pay $$$$ for designer purses generally take pretty good care of them, and that includes not putting them on dirty floors. thanks for the general reminder though!

I completely agree with the posts concerning the unhygienic conditions that are being imposed upon anyone traveling by TSA procedures. One should add having to walk through the scanner in socks.

The airlines already realize that their tap water is not potable, and warn the traveler about drinking it. Instead they suggest you obtain bottled water on baord, and what has now becoming the added norm of selling bottled water to you.

In my opinion, of greater health threat is the condition of the air in the planes. Most of you are frequent fliers and have experienced an increased incidence of respiratory ailments within a week or so of being on baord a plane.

I disagree.

I fly about 300,000 miles per year and I am rarely ill. The few times I've been ill in the last 5 years have been colds, not respiratory illnesses.

At PHX there are little boxes with paper surgical booties on stands just before security checkpoints. I always take a pair and use them to walk through security, after dutifully placing my shoes in the plastic bin. It's appalling how filthy the booties are after just shuffling through the metal detectors. I cannot imagine walking on the floor in sox, stockings, or barefooted --- then putting shoes back on. Eeeew. :(

We have a big box of the booties at home, purchased at a surgical supplies store. (We use them for workmen to cover their shoes when inside our home.) I would encourage frequent flyers to buy their own booties if the airports they fly to/from don't provide them. The cost works out to about 50 cents per pair.

Mail the used pair to Comrade Kip Hawley, along with some words of encouragement. ;)

Agree! And i have to say, i'm not about to spend ANY thing extra on something that should be provided for me. That's like going to a hospital and having to bring your own surgical tools or something. Completely stupid.

Hear hear! ^

Setting anything down on the floor of a bathroom, gas station or elsewhere ... I ask you!

Actually, I quit carrying a "purse" because I hate the whole where-to-set-it-down to-do all day long ... (plus I tend to lose things easily ... :o)

I don't think the analogy holds.

Last four times I've been hospitalized overnight or for day surgery, slippers were not provided for me or even available: I was told to wear my socks or have someone bring mine from home. :confused:

Now if I had to bring my own swabbies for the explosives detector to the airport ... :mad:

What's stupid is walking on airport floors in bare or stockinged feet, then putting them back in one's shoes.

Life isn't fair. We often have to provide our own "protection" --- like the gardening gloves I keep in my car to wear when I pump my gas. I don't expect the gas station to provide gloves, but I want to protect my hands from germs and residue on the pump handle. So I bring my own gloves. Same thing at the airport.

And yes, when you go to the hospital you do have to provide your own slippers... Have a nice day!

Uhhhh... ok... next time i make a ridiculous analogy i'll enclose it in [joke] brackets. :p And you could always spray gas on your hands, that would kill the germs. :D :D

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the bins used at LAX are serviced by a contract. I think these are the bins with the advertisements printed inside of them. My understanding is that TSA is prohibited from cleaning or replacing these bins. The contractor is supposed to do that.

As for the cleanliness of the bins, I think it's an unrealistic expectation. At SAT, we take away bins that are cracked, soiled or stained. On slow nights, we wipe them down with alcohol (it's the closest thing to cleaning supplies we have), but that's about the best we can do.

As for the dirty floors, I grant that the floors are not clean (even though our airport maintenance cleans the floors twice daily). However, if there is one thing universally associated with airport security, it's the idea of having to remove one's shoes as part of the process. Even those who travel infrequently know that they have to remove their shoes. Why not pack an extra pair of socks for the specific purpose of temporarily wearing them while processing through security? (What I find ironic is that many people wear their shoes barefooted, and whatever germs one may pick up on the floor probably pale in comparison to what resides inside the shoes themselves!)

Demanding that all shoes come off is an American "airport security" pet project -- taking off shoes as part of the "airport security" process is anything but universally associated with airport security.

In any event, glad to hear that some people try to clean some bins sometimes.

Thankfully, there's the option of sticking your stuff inside a plastic (or washable) bag before putting it in the bins.

I'd be surprised if the amount of fecal matter that ends up in traveller's bodies in the US hasn't increased due to the shoe carnival. Taking off shoes and putting them back on and then eating prior to cleaning the hands is a recipe for consuming that. :eek: The nasty shoe carnival is another reminder to wash your hands properly with soap and warm water for approximately 20 seconds prior to eating -- just don't count on the FAs who serve you necessarily doing the same. :eek:

In your world, perhaps. I see people process through the checkpoint everyday and they either automatically take their shoes off or ask if they need to remove them. The point being, which you conveniently glossed over, is that many people still wear their shoes barefoot or don't think to pack an extra pair of socks specifically for the purpose of passing through security. I don't understand the concern over cleanliness of the floors or the bins when people don't take enough precautions on their own to keep their feet clean. In fact, Americans in general don't keep their feet clean.

As for the soundness of removing shoes, I agree. There has got to be a better way. The current policy ain't it. However, I'm afraid that the bureaucratic path of least resistance is to stick to the current policy of having all shoes removed than to return to the previous policy of letting officers use their judgment on which shoes ought to be removed and which shouldn't.

We live on the same planet, and yet outside of the US -- and yes the US is co-located on the same world as the places to which FTers really travel ;) -- removing shoes is not demanded like it is in the US.

The American-style shoe carnival is not a universal part of airport security -- that is, most other countries in the real world don't demand that all passenger shoes come off in order to clear airport security.

As noted eariler (i.e., above):

The majority of air travellers outside of the US won't be subjected to the shoe carnival -- for the shoe removal requirement in the US is anything but a universal part of the airport security process.

Yeah, whatever. You missed the point. Let's leave it at that.

That's not it. You took issue with my mentioning, contrary to your claim, that the shoe carnival is not universally associated with airport security; the shoe carnival is associated with the dog and pony show (although not universally associated with such either) in America.

Do you wear socks? Or to put it conversely, would you ever consider not wearing socks the next time you fly?

Circumstance-based. ;) I do have to deal with the dirty bins at US airports.

And that's my point. You've had enough experiences to know better. I'd argue that others have as well. If you want to get wrapped around the word "universal" then how about "commonly-accepted"?

I am still amazed that people travel sockless and then complain when they have to remove their shoes at the checkpoint. Then again, this is nothing compared to the loose toothbrushes I see whenever I happen to check a toiletry bag. And don't get me started on women's cosmetics bags; talk about germ-city; and they apply this stuff on their faces?

Lots of people have dirty habits. Walking barefoot on a floor, unsanitary as it may be, pales in comparison to these other issues.

That's my point.

So how about my world? I DO pack an extra pair of socks for EACH security point I think i need to pass through, with a separate baggie to collect said socks after being worn through the germfest of an airport screening area's floor. Am I allowed to be concerned? I am - even with said socks ... btw, these are special non-skid socks b/c those floors make walking barefoot/socked feet dangerous at times due with the level of waxing sometimes applied. Those areas are a lawsuit waiting to happen for so many reasons (which I'm sure will be extinguished and paid off with no disclosure to the american public, but that is another story)!

I also have an issue here ... yes, there are people with hygiene issues but if I don't share said issues and bad habits, why should I have to be exposed to them via the stupidity of the screening process in its current form? This whole thing is so inane and wasteful.

I don't disagree with you as far as the screening process is concerned. You're absolutely right: there is a better way. Unfortunately, I don't see TSA seeking a better way. It's easier to stick with the status quo and just have everybody remove their shoes as opposed to leaving it up to the individual judgment of each screener whether a shoe fits a certain profile or not. Not a good answer, but I think it's a realistic one.

And I also agree that it will take something like a lawsuit, and probably as you pointed out the result of someone slipping on a floor, before TSA modifies this policy. That's the ugly part about the bureaucratic inertia that takes place once an agency is satisfied with its policies no matter how ridiculous it may be.

Fair enough?

Fair? No - realistic to the idiocy that's been created by this administration, yes, I'll agree with you there.

I don't think it's something you can conveniently blame on this administration. I think it's the nature of the government bureaucratic beast no matter who has the political majority. (By the way, it was this administration that was dragged with feet kicking into creating the TSA based on how Congress voted; just as this administration is being challenged by Congress to allow collective bargaining rights for TSOs. So I don't think you can define this as a simple matter of partisan politics.)

I do wonder whether or not there are any documented cases where people have picked up an illness from the floor of an airport (without going down on all-fours and licking the tiles)?

It seems these days in general people have a massively out of place fear of germs. It's not uncommon for me to see people wanting to fill their cars at petrol stations driving away because there are no gloves for them to wear. I'd never seen this until the last few years.

I like to keep things clean but I also strongly believe that exposure to a bit of dirt makes your immune system stronger. Recent medical research seems to point to overly sterile environments as a cause for a number of ailments affecting children in particular.

As kids often say, "a little dirt don't hurt."

I agree that there's an awful lot of misplaced germophobia in general and in these posts in particular. I never gave it much thought until I began working as a screener. A couple new habits I've developed are to never touch my face until after I've washed my hands; to always wash my hands or use the hand sanitizer; to always wear gloves when screening people or their property; and to be conscientious of bio-hazards. I see these as precautions not necessarily a fear of germs.

Here's what I see at my job:

Passengers who come through the WTMD with their boarding passes clenched in their mouths. Then they hand it to me. While that's disgusting enough, they then place it back in their mouths after I hand it back to them!

Passengers with minor cuts or are otherwise bleeding who refuse medical attention. They may have used their own handkerchief to stop the bleeding or maybe even used some of our paper towels, but I don't know where they've discarded these items.

Passengers who place a foot on a chair to tie on a shoe in the screening area (or in any area for that matter). It should be pretty obvious that someone is going to sit in that chair, but it doesn't seem to matter to the people who do this.

And I've already covered the loose, uncovered toothbrushes inside of toiletry bags (with soap bars, colognes, shaving creams, etc.); cosmetics bags with the interior linings discolored or powdery; food wrapped in napkins placed inside of carry-on bags; etc.

The point to all this is that dirty bins are the least, or should be the least, of all worries. While theoretically possible to catch a disease or the transfer of bacteria from a dirty bin, washing hands is a simple and effective means of prevention. Putting the blame on TSA or suggesting that TSA provide booties is a lazy denial of individual responsibility. (Are there any guarantees that the table you dine at in a restaurant is truly clean? Where do you place your silverware once you begin to eat? I submit that you are more likely to catch a disease as the result of eating at a restaurant than handling a bin at the airport.)

On dirty bins in particular, how much effort would it be for the person throwing the bins back to the head of the queue to look inside and if they're dirty put them aside for cleaning?

If you look at post #22, you'll see that we do that; well, as much as practical. Passengers usually stack the bins at the end of the conveyor while we return them to the front. So it's a matter of happening to notice a dirty bin or having it brought to our attention.

As for the situation at LAX, I addressed that, too. I think that it's covered under contract. I don't know any details because we don't use contracted bins; although we were told a couple years ago that we would eventually go to contracted bins.

Restaurants are periodically inspected by the Health Department - and if they don't pass, they are shut down. Are TSA areas ever inspected by a Health Department?

For the feet thing - I would be more concerned with a foot fungus than general germs. I wash my hands before I eat, but that's about it. I never even heard of using gloves at the gas station - just wash your hands afterwards. I don't place my purse on the floor. If there is no hook, I just leave it on my shoulder.

I do recall one time (early on in the shoe circus - this was August 2005) my husband and I were flying from Orlando to London. We had heard about the shoe circus, and worn socks (didn't think of bringing an extra pair). Lo and behold - the carpet was freshly washed! How do we know? It was still soaking wet. Now we had lovely wet socks to wear on our transatlantic flight. No other socks available. Couldn't wear those shoes without socks without getting blisters (not good for the start of a vacation). It was disgusting - and there was no warning that the carpet was still wet, either. No sign, no mention.