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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   "Security Feints": sad article (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/598211-security-feints-sad-article.html)

GUWonder Sep 6, 2006 9:56 am


Originally Posted by Bart
To underestimate the resourcefulness of international terrorists or downplay their intentions just because it causes inconveniences at the security checkpoint seems just as dumb, to me, as it is to overreact to every incident as a possible terrorist probe.

I don't see any necessary connection between:

A. "underestimating" the resourcefulness of "international" terrorists (or downplaying "their" intentions)

and

B. overreacting to every incident as a possible terrorist probe.

That is, just because there is A does not mean there is always B (or vice versa).

We have a lot of B going on nowadays.

Bart Sep 6, 2006 10:06 am

Deleted

justageek Sep 6, 2006 10:18 am


Originally Posted by Bart
I wouldn't, however, dismiss the possibility of the bad guys conducting probes just because I had a bias against TSA. To underestimate the resourcefulness of international terrorists or downplay their intentions just because it causes inconveniences at the security checkpoint seems just as dumb, to me, as it is to overreact to every incident as a possible terrorist probe.

True, but bringing the discussion back to the article, the author didn't provide any evidence that any of the reported incidents were "dry runs" by terrorist, yet implied that they all were!

I think what's goig on here, as you alluded to as a possibility, is that in a heightened state of vigilence, everything looks suspicious. It doesn't mean that those activities are happening with any higher frequency than before, just that you are noticing them more.

Bart Sep 6, 2006 10:22 am

Deleted

GUWonder Sep 6, 2006 10:32 am


Originally Posted by Bart
Do you not read the posts in this forum? Many of the complaints are based on inconvenience prompted by the security measures. You see what you want to see; that much is clear.

I'm not the topic. Above mischaracterizations, stated and implied, set aside. ;)


Originally Posted by Bart
To say that airport security is not as effective as it could be is one thing; to say that it is a complete waste of time and not provide any specifics is to poo-poo the idea just because it causes inconveniences or violates a naive interpretation of civil liberties.

We get it all in this forum. Agreed?

No; by your own admission above, we don't get it all in this forum.

Bart Sep 6, 2006 10:35 am

Deleted

GUWonder Sep 6, 2006 10:37 am


Originally Posted by Bart
I agree for the most part that they are being noticed more. I don't discount that some are either deliberate feints, such as the incident in Houston, or are opportunities for observation. However, the majority of them are non-incidents that just happened to be noticed and perhaps reacted to by a news-hungry media.

As for the author's intent, good question. You sell more by implying that they're all out to get us rather than taking a level-headed approach. This is my biggest and single-most contempt against anyone who works for the news media.

Before the news-hungry media reacts, the actors being covered have had to do something. So the "non-incidents" just happen to be mostly overreactions. Then again when paranoia is at the core of the message being spread from the political and media bully-pulpits, this is no surprise.

GUWonder Sep 6, 2006 10:46 am


Originally Posted by Bart
when you have a point, please let me know :rolleyes:

The point also being that I'm not the topic. ;)


Originally Posted by Bart
To say that airport security is not as effective as it could be is one thing; to say that it is a complete waste of time and not provide any specifics is to poo-poo the idea just because it causes inconveniences or violates a naive interpretation of civil liberties.

We get it all in this forum. Agreed?

Well, I'll state the point again, but only a bit more bluntly. ;)

"No; by your own admission above, we don't get it all in this forum." Why is that? Because as your own example shows with

A. "airport security is not as effective as it could be is one thing"

and

B. "it is a complete waste of time and not provide any specifics is to poo-poo the idea just because it causes inconveniences or violates a naive interpretation of civil liberties"

there's little qualitative difference between the two except that the TSA-is-mostly-good crowd finds A to be a more substantive point while a good size of the TSA-is-mostly-a-waste crowd finds B to be a more substantive point. Of course disparaging the position of "the enemy" by seeing one as more substantive than the other thing is telling enough. :o

So we don't get it all, at least not all of the time. ;)

dodo Sep 6, 2006 10:46 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder
She's not a counterterrorism expert -- by the measure of more than just her mistaken calls -- and she's not an Arabic expert -- by the measure of both her simple mistakes in translations and her injection of a political agenda into what should be simple translations. Then again, she's got her bank account and her affiliations which need satisfying.

It just happened also that she was married to a Muslim whom she qualifies as a radical extremist and from whom she has managed to "escape" with her children. :confused:
As far as her political agendas - well it is not difficult to see where she is coming from - an axe to grind for her youthful mistakes :rolleyes:

GUWonder Sep 6, 2006 10:50 am


Originally Posted by dodo
It just happened also that she was married to a Muslim whom she qualifies as a radical extremist and from whom she has managed to "escape" with her children. :confused:
As far as her political agendas - well it is not difficult to see where she is coming from - an axe to grind for her youthful mistakes :rolleyes:

That reminds me of Ann Coulter who considers herself an expert on Islam too. Carnal relations ending on a sour note (for one party); fortunately no kids involved that time.

This would be like OBL's alienated half-brother claiming to be a counterterrorism expert by measure of having been around his half-brother OBL before getting in a fight with him. :D

dodo Sep 6, 2006 11:16 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder
This would be like OBL's alienated half-brother claiming to be a counterterrorism expert by measure of having been around his half-brother OBL before getting in a fight with him. :D

Life must be tough for a trophy wife :D

etch5895 Sep 6, 2006 11:29 am

Getting OT
 
The thread is getting off topic. My two cents:

1. I believe that terrorist types are conducting passive surveillence of security and are probably conducting dry runs of some kind or another. I've got no proof of this other than it's what I would be doing if I were working for a terrorist organization.

2. We will never know for sure unless we either catch someone in the act (hard to prove unless they are committing a crime) or someone admits to probing security (not bloody likely).

PhlyingRPh Sep 6, 2006 11:45 am


Originally Posted by etch5895
The thread is getting off topic. My two cents:

1. I believe that terrorist types are conducting passive surveillence of security and are probably conducting dry runs of some kind or another. I've got no proof of this other than it's what I would be doing if I were working for a terrorist organization.

2. We will never know for sure unless we either catch someone in the act (hard to prove unless they are committing a crime) or someone admits to probing security (not bloody likely).

Can you please tell us who these so called "terrorists" are that you speak of?

justageek Sep 6, 2006 11:47 am


Originally Posted by etch5895
1. I believe that terrorist types are conducting passive surveillence of security and are probably conducting dry runs of some kind or another. I've got no proof of this other than it's what I would be doing if I were working for a terrorist organization.

Do you also believe that, at this very moment, burglars are coducting passive surveilence of your house -- because "it's what [you] would be doing if [you] were a burglar"?!?

Dovster Sep 6, 2006 11:47 am


Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh
Can you please tell us who these so called "terrorists" are that you speak of?

I would think it is a good guess that he is referring to Al Qaeda. Do you not consider them to be terrorists? If you do, why did you find it necessary to use quotation marks around the word?


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