What makes the ADA work, other than the situations you cite, is advocacy groups that can put the squeeze on government agencies in a very public manner. (FYI, I have a mentally handicapped sister-in-law and am plugged into some of these advocacy groups.) Even in his best days, the TSA's former Baghdad Bob, Mark Hatfield, couldn't "no comment" and ADA issue. That's the advantage -- public embarassment that causes them to take positive action. All of this can happen well short of a lawsuit. If nothing else, you can force the TSA into conducting remedial training of its problem employees and perhaps prevent this sort of thing happening to someone in a worse situation than either you or my sister-in-law.

And, for the record, I certainly don't consider what happened to you to be a "nuisance complaint," and I'm willing to bet that most folks who post here would agree with me.

Air Carrier Access Act
 

Generally it would be the Air Carrier Access Act not the ADA.

The Air Carrier Access Act prohibits discrimination in air transportation by domestic and foreign air carriers against qualified individuals with physical or mental impairments. It applies only to air carriers that provide regularly scheduled services for hire to the public. Requirements address a wide range of issues including boarding assistance and certain accessibility features in newly built aircraft and new or altered airport facilities. People may enforce rights under the Air Carrier Access Act by filing a complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation, or by bringing a lawsuit in Federal court. For more information or to file a complaint, contact:

Aviation Consumer Protection Division
U.S. Department of Transportation
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Room 4107, C-75
Washington, D.C. 20590

airconsumer.ost.dot.gov

(202) 366-2220 (voice)
(202) 366-0511 (TTY)

(800) 778-4838 (voice)
(800) 455-9880 (TTY)

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/cguide.htm lists some other disability related laws and protections

Sylvia

Agreed, if it were about something the airline had done. I've always been under the impression that the airlines are subject to the ACAA, but the airport is subject to ADA. Am I mistaken?

Katja's right
 

From a disability-rights attorney:

The ADA would apply primarily to the airport as a place of public accommodation, while the ACAA applies to airlines and would apply to the airline screening policies. The DOT has published regulations regarding implementation of the ACAA see links at: http://www.dlrp.org/html/guide_to/acaa.html
Here is a nice summary of the ACAA requirements by the DOT
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...s.htm#Security
Here is a list of where to file disability-related complaints:
http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/Discr...tsContacts.htm

But what still isn't clear to me is who is doing the screening, under what laws does DHS/TSA fall?

Sylvia

None, because they're above the law. :D

Thanks, Sylvia
 

That's a good list of links.
I'm baffled, too, on which legislation the DHS personnel screening falls under. Probably exempt, or something, like Congress is exempt from labor laws.

Deleted

Sorry but this continue to be a load of BS to cover the fact that TSA is unprepared and unable to do the job they were created to handle ... 3 oz bottles, quart plastic baggies??? This is just nonsense. I'm sure there is stock held or favors owed to those in the cosmetics, toiletries and other airside concessionaires. :td:

The sad thing is that people will think this is an improvement and just accept it as status quo in the long term.

Comrade Chertoff and Half-wit Hawley can still go straight to hell.

Illogical risk avoidance rather than sensible risk management rules the roost at the Terrorism Support Agency.

Bart, thanks for this, it is helpful. I'm sure most FT'ers appreciate you hanging with us, despite the sometimes "tough audience".

We have a saying in 12 step recovery: Progress, not perfection. To me, this latest change fits squarely in that category.

Instead of p*ssing and moaning on this forum, where it does no good, why don't you write your Congressmen and the TSA? Oh yeah, right. Complaining in a public forum like this doesn't solve anything, but it sure does make *you* feel better. Post whatever snappy comebacks you like, but you know it's true.

On behalf of many FT'ers, shut up already....

??????? Oh, this will help to expedite the screening process. Will there be a gate dragon to check your boarding pass declared items against your baggie? You have to be freaking kidding me!

ZIPLOCK CARNIVAL! Gotta love it... :rolleyes:

So, the contact lens solution that I could carry before now has to be packed separately from the one quart bag and declared and written on the back of my boarding pass if I want to kee my one quart bag from not being "stuffed?" And why 1 quart?

Do I now have to allow another 1/2 hour for slow TSO writers? And what of poor penmanship?

Who thinks up this stuff??!!

Bart thanks for the "rd version" but i have a simple question (actually a couple)....

1-why the zip-lock baggie? is there any difference in placing my open toiletries kit on the belt for inspection? if all items are w/in the size guidelines, then the inspection process is the same, right? just curious.

2-can one substitute a baggie of the same size (or in my case smaller than 1qt) but not a "zip lock"? my reasoning is i have a ton of 12oz/.38qt (marked by the vendor) clear plastic bags and they are stronger than your std zip lock baggie. again, i don't see a difference as a clear baggie is a clear baggie. again, just curious.

3-enjoy your day off :)

Then you should also know that if one is in "recovery" that praising the latest addiction trade is completely illogical. "You've been on and off the smack for 5 years now. Today, you've switched back to heroin after a recent experiment with speed......g (mixing heroin and cocaine, sorry re: FT censor). Good job!!" :rolleyes:

Some of us do write our representatives and the TSA as well as the airlines. And we complain here too where millions can see that the TSA's actions are often extremely foolish.

On behalf of many FTers, you are awesome FWAAA and I hope to continue to read your insightful posts. @:-)

A question here on "reasonably adequate":

Important medicines shouldn't be checked, especially if there's no way to replace them at the destination. As far as I'm concerned, "reasonably adequate" includes enough for the whole trip + some reserve.

For our usual trips to visit her relatives that means packing 1,440ml of liquid. Considering it's packing material (it comes packed in 5ml ampoules) it's about 1/3 of a rollaboard.

Replacement at the destination would be all but impossible.

Hear, hear!

I thinking (and hoping) that contact lens solution still falls in the category of:

"b. Prescription and essential non-prescription medicines; again, no size restrictions; and again, commensurate with what is reasonably adequate."

I'm sure there will be a ton of confusion, and the 3 oz/4 oz difference will mess people up. The smaller size of no-rub lens solution usually comes in a 4oz bottle.

You have absolutely no idea of the extent of my correspondence to the President, the two half-wits in charge of the DHS/TSA (respectively) and my Congressional delegation on this issue since August 10.

I await your apology. :)

There are many other FT members who whole-heartedly disagree.

At least from the standpoint of the no-rub solution. Just go to your eye doctor and ask for the sample size version of your no-rub. Those come in 2oz. containers.

I have mine in prescription (thanks to my Dr.) form, so the limit doesn't apply to those.

As for the reasonable size on the prescription medicine. From what I understand if it is in the bottle that you get from the pharmacy with the label attached you are fine. That is by definition reasonable, because that is the only legal way to carry the item after it was dispenced. As for the non-prescription essential liquids I have a feeling that TSA will use the smallest commercial size offered. If my experience yesterday at DTW is any indication, the staff there have a list of OTC liquids commonly found. It was about three pages worth and had both the name of the product and package sizes commonly found. The screener questioned my lens solution, and even the prescription because it was listed in the OTC sheets as OTC not prescription. He let it through as a prescription, but made a comment that as of tomorrow it is not going to matter. He said they were all going to be treated the same. So that has me wondering if some airports are going to look at the one bag thing as including the prescriptions as well.

SO I guess we can look forward to ziplock bag carnival. Of course will I be turned away if I use a hefty one zip bag instead?

A relaxation just before the election. Big surprise. :rolleyes:

Does anyone know if the one quart zip top bag has to have the plastic slider or is it ok to use the old fashioned zip lock bags that just zip together (without the plastic slider shown in the TSA press release photo)?

The procedure Bart is describing is demonstrated in two videos posted on tsa.gov here and here .

To me it looks like a nightmare of delays and distraction to have to write a silly little note (that is then checked by who?) and wrap it around the container. Not only will this slow down lines, but if implemented as shown in the video, it will completely tie up a screener at each lane. And I can't think of anything that this procedure adds to security.

The paranoid side of me fears TSA will use the delays created by this part of the procedure to justify returning to a total liquid ban. The new ziplock-baggie thing will not create substantial delays, but this declaration policy will.

1 qt., 8" x 7.5" Slider optional!

Well, my 1 qt Glad bag (without slider) is 7" x 9" instead of the pictured 8" x 7.5" - hope mine is ok. :)

Not on my behalf.

Why would a mother let a total stranger handle her baby's bottle? Also, the man with the insulin bottles lets someone else handle them without that person having on sterile gloves. Looks like TSA is now wanting to spread disease as well as stupidity. :(

- Alan

Not on my behalf. I have moaned on here and I have written all my elected officials and the TSA. (The TSA doesn't even bother to respond.... the elected officials give me a line of bull. Think I will write them again to today and ask them for an explanation of WHY that water in the sterile area was DANGEROUS and what magically happened to it?? Harry Potter?)

Great - another inane decision that will be up to the discretion of the resident moat dragon. "There is no slider - NO BAG FOR YOU!"

You do not speak for me. :td:

This is inane and yet another thing they want the airports to support that they are not configured or set-up to handle....the back ups from this insanity are going to be enormous. I know at places like IAD, there isn't all that much space between the scanner lines and the id checker lines to put those tables.

Now it's a matter of finding the fastest writer in addition to the shortest line to get through the scanners. TSA - stupidity at its best :Mad: :td:

Just wait, soon TSA is going to ask for a few extra billion dollars from Congress to pay for their (unseen) needs for pens, paper and plastic baggies. :rolleyes:

different shapes for one quart baggies
 

I have some very heavy duty plastic bags I use in my business that are one quart capacity, but are a different shape than the square Zip Lock/Glad bags. They are long and skinny, rectangular, but they are one quart. Will TSA accept these? Is the mil strength of the bag going to be checked? Are the screeners going to do the mathematical calculation to prove the capacity of the bag is one quart?

What happens if my husband and I put both of our plastic baggies of little bottles in the same plastic bin for screening? How would the screener know that one was mine and one was his, not that both were mine? What happens if you have 2 baggies of little bottles?

You must provide your own baggie, Citizen. We only provide the rules for the dimensions of the baggie.

If you read the instructions word for word it never says you can't have more than one baggy per person .....

You may only bring one on-board.

That would assume the experts :rolleyes: at TSA HQ to be capable of thinking beyond the next few hours. If it took them 6 weeks to come up with this solution (sic, no pun), I don't expect them to be able to decide that it's "not working" for considerably longer than that.

Aha ! More opportunities for screener umm... discretion. "Too much shampoo - do you want to fly today ?".
Who uses shampoo* in the "duration of the flight" anyway ?

* as illustrated in the TSA's sample baggie

Where does it say that? I can only find where it says that your 3oz container needs to fit in a single bag?

I'm with you on the pedantics, but not the pedagoguery.

capacity vs contents?
 

Is the 3oz restriction based on the capacity of the container or the contents? For example, say I have a 6oz cologne bottle that is clearly less than half full. Is this ok? The same might apply with a container of gel deodorant (do they make it in 3oz or lower capacities?)