Policy question -- please clarify what TSA can/can't do
 

Last week I was flying from JFK and our flight was changed from Terminal 9 to Terminal 8. I wanted to keep my shoes on and the TSA agent gave me a huge hassle. I plan to send a complaint letter to the TSA, but before I do, I have a few questions for TSA and other folks on this board.

1. Can a TSA agent demand that you take off your shoes? We had just come from Terminal 9, where my shoes had been fine. I told the agent this and he said "I don't care, take off your shoes or I will send you for secondary screening."

2. What are the rules on secondary screenings and “threatening” you with ss if you don’t do something, eg. Take off your shoes?

3. Can a TSA agent demand to see your driver's license and refuse to let you leave the security area until you provide it?

4. What personal information are they allowed to take down? The TSA supervisor insisted on seeing my license and proceeded to write down my name, address, and driver's licence number so that "he could file a report about my behavior and refusal to remove my shoes."

5. Under what circumstances can they refuse to give you a complaint form?

6. Who would you file a report with? What are the chances that if you file a complaint that you will end up on some sort of troublemaker list that will subject you to ss in the future or not be able to fly? When you write a letter, what do you say/what action do you request be taken?

This was my first encounter with TSA shoe freaks and frankly it was very unpleasant, to the point of being intimidating. I'm glad that Mr. KS was with me to witness the encounter. Based on how I was treated he does believe a written complaint is warranted.

Thanks.

Here is a judgement on a 2004 Court ruling that appears to address your concern with security at airports and whether TSA agents contravene the 4th Amendment etc. It might be of assistance, but if not its a good read in any event.

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/20040819_...oft_Amicus.pdf

Maca444, the document appears to be a brief rather than a judgment.

If you visit, this site there is a listing of many if not all, documents filed through November of 2004 in the case:

http://www.papersplease.org/gilmore/legal.html

Here is the what may be the latest document in this matter, filed by the plaintiff iin November:

http://209.123.170.170/gilmore/_dl/G...ly%20Brief.pdf

Don't ever carry your DL as your ID (or if you need to have it with you, hide it deep within your wallet) - take your passport instead and make up an address if they demand one - I've done that a couple of times.

They can't refuse to give you a complaint form - but they probably don't have them. Keep a notepad and pencil with you and take down names, badge numbers, date, time, etc., etc., etc. Send a letter with all information to TSA in DC, copy the local FSD the general manager of the airport, your airline, your congresspeople and consider adding your local ACLU chapter.

You're not going to get diddly in response from the TSA, but if you make certain you copy every entity you can think of it gives a bit more credence to your complaint.

Good advice; however, I suggest one always keeps their drivers license on them for a number of reasons. However, use the passport or other form of ID which does not have your address as your airport ID.

A drivers license is often necessary when traveling, especially if you will be renting / driving a car. It is also good to have on you in the event of an emergency. Additionally, your drivers license may be necessary when purchasing some products (alcohol / tobacco) and some places will not accept a passport as an ID. I once misplaced my drivers license when traveling and a 7-11 would not accept my passport as a valid ID; I've had other places also refuse a US passport as proof of age (go figure).

With respect to the Federal Security Director (FSD) at JFK airport, the following information was valid as of 7/29/04:

William Hall
TSA - JFK International Airport
Building 111, 2nd Floor
Jamaica, New York 11430

Telephone: 718-553-0435
Facsimile: 718-553-2155

Email: [email protected]

I don't know if this individual is still the FSD, but you could always write in "Federal Security Director" in place of the name and it'll get to the correct person. If possible, have the agents name & ID # -- otherwise provide the terminal, time of day, a description of the person, and what lane you went through if you recall, and the date. (i.e. Terminal X, at 12 noon, tall white male with xyz hair, lane at the left, on the 18th of October).

cc the letter to your congress members, TSA HQ in DC, and any other elected officials you feel would be appropriate. cc it to a local newspaper if you'd like.

Keep it short & to the point. If I were you, I would make the basis of the complaint about your ID being requested, your personal information logged, etc., without any disclosure as to why and you are concerned about your privacy. State the circumstances around it - you could also point out according to the TSA website it states that it is not necessary to remove shoes (throw it back at them) and make it clear you had no problem in the other terminal.

You should get some good advice here - I wouldn't expect the FSD to do anything, but you never know. Most importantly make sure it gets to your Senators and House Rep, plus any other local elected officials which may have an interest. You may even want to cc it to your airline customer service department so they know how their customers are being treated.

Best,

SDF_Traveler

I'm gonna give this a shot here, but keep in mind I can only tell you about my airport (PHL). Things change from airport to airport. A screener cannot demand that you take off your shoes. The most they can do is send you for secondary screening. And I do believe that if you don't alarm, all they do is the shoe swipe. Second, and this is very important. The TSA has NO power to detain anyone. They cannot physically stop you from doing anything. All you have to do is walk around them. Chances are they'll call the police, but it usually takes them a while to respond. And the police know what the TSA can and cannot do. A complaint form should always be available. And you can file a complaint online at www.TSA.gov. You could always go to another terminal and get one also. Don't know what good it will do you to send it to the airport FSD, they seem to get lost there. If you encounter any more trouble, there is a Federal Screening Manager assigned to every terminal in every airport. They are the supervisors boss. If you don't get any satisfaction from the supervisor, ask for the manager. They seem to be more "customer satisfaction" oriented than the sups. Hope I was of some help. Be safe.

bambi47, or anyone else - is it possible that providing a false address to TSA could be a violation of the law?

Jakebeth, I am not an expert on the law, but I would think that they could make some kind of Obstruction thing out of it IF they were looking for you.

18 USC 1001 - making a false official statement may trip you up.

I'll take my chances - especially when lied to by a jerk as the OP reported the TSA agent said he needed the information so he "could file a report about my behavior and refusal to remove my shoes."

posted twice for some reason

Short answer - just about whatever an individual screener wants to do. With the stock "SSI" response, a judicial action is likely to be a non-starter. Congress, which created this monster, needs to step in and put some limits on this bunch.

Just tell them that as soon as they provided you with a Privacy Act notice indicating the use of such information, then you will consider complying with their request. It will certainly cause them to ponder, but it may also deteriorate the situation.

Is a statement to the TSA an 'official' statement covered by the law? Since the TSA is not a law enforcement or investigative agency.

I am unsure. That is probably SSI. :D