Two thumbs-ups for the TSA
 

If I'm going to post and complain when TSA agents do things to harass and annoy people, then I feel that it's also my obligation to post about times that agents do things right...

This past Thursday (20-NOV) I flew IAD-PIT-PHX on US, with the IAD-PIT flight leaving @ 0650. I went through screening around 0600. While going through the screening there, I found the TSA agents to be friendly, knowledgable of TSA policies, efficient, and just all-around great people for folks who were on the job at 6am. I hope they keep up the good work.

Yesterday (23-NOV) I flew PHX-PHL-BWI, leaving PHX @ 1415. Again, the TSA staff in terminal 2 at PHX was friendly and efficient-- some quality folks must be working there.

It would be great if every TSA checkpoint at every airport would function like these two places and provide friendly experiences in which agents smile, say "good morning", and treat you with respect. If this were to happen, I don't think that anyone would have any problems with the agency or the screening process. Way to go, folks!

I found the EXACT opposite in PHX.

If you do not Kiss Their Rings, Bow Down in Obedience and De-Shoe, you are subjected to Secondary Harrassment.

I've actually found for the most part that TSA is fine, polite, professional, etc. Obviously there are exceptions but in a LOT of flying since 9/11 I haven't found anything worth wasting my (valuable) time to complain about. I realize that's my 100K/year experience & only put it up as my experience, no one else's.

What I've been absolutely stunned at is the FTers who post on this forum who make it sound as though TSAers should be drawn/quartered, etc. Like it or not, the agency exists. Like it of not, the people exist. Most try to do their job in not great circumstances & not great pay. Some do it absolutely well; some don't - that's true of every single industry & job in the entire universe.

That doesn't mean to say that those who have a problem w/ either the agency or the people shouldn't follow up on their complaints, but good grief, given all the crap that goes on in this world - with wars, people dying of cancer, etc, get a grip.

I know some of you believe your civil liberties are being abused, etc, but some of the suggestions you make re: the TSA staff are worse than the liberties you think you're giving up - and again I speak only for myself, get a grip.

Edited to add: I flew out of PHX yest & had no problem. Everyone polite, no problem w/ shoes (they asked if I wanted to take them off, I said they wouldn't set off alarm but was willing to go through secondary if they did), they didn't, went through, got my stuff no problem. I did hear them mention someone in front of me who went bananas & was a pain in the butt - maybe it was CameraGuy? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif )

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Sharon

[This message has been edited by SkiAdcock (edited Nov 25, 2003).]

Well, CameraGuy, you're always so nice and polite to everybody on FlyerTalk, I can't imagine you being anything other than that when going through security. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Personally, I have noticed that the TSA agents do generally make an extra effort to be pleasant, polite, and friendly. Yes, they occasionally pull me aside for wanding, etc... But have been universally polite when doing so.

Of course, it helps if you act the same way to them, instead of throwing a hissy fit as I think some might be inclined to do.

I agree with a few of your statements. What started me posting anti-TSA was the TSA poster's and the TSA themselves. Their insults to my intelligence with all the "in the name of safety" crap. No possible intel can justify several of their unbelievable policies. Like the ID/BP 2 or more times within a few feet (visible or not). The shoe thingy and the unlocked checked luggage. There isn't a single post on FT (or the TSA website) that can be seriously considered justification. Nothing.
Reading some of these posts from self proclaimed TSA employees you'd think they are God's answer to safety.
Until "all" cargo that is transported on passenger planes is screened what is the point of leaving my luggage unlocked? While yes it is only a suggestion, they tell you you it will be destroyed if entrance is required and they will not be liable!!!
They are unaccountable and that is unacceptable.
Yes they are just doing their jobs. I don't hassle them at checkpoints unless they hassle me....

And what point, Greg, are you making by hassling them? If there is a problem, note the names on their nametags (they all have them) and send a polite letter in to the appropriate office.

That will have more effect than any hassling ever will.

Not sure hassling is the proper word. I was thinking, when I wrote this, about when commenting to the 2nd TSA person in 4 feet (MEM/UAL) that I just showed my ID and being told "he didn't count" and if I want to pass through I'll have to show if. Then walking another 4 feet to the x-ray and being requested to show it a 3rd time. Also commenting that I showed it to (pointing 8 feet away) him, him (pointing 4 feet away), and now you? Same type of Goon reply "it for your safety". 3 checks in 8 feet (literally) is hassling. My reciprocal hassling is merely verbal astoundishment. I haven't been "hassled" to the point names need to be taken.
I will simply avoid using airports that I feel have overzealous TSA or long TSA lines (LAX) because of the shoe and ID policies.

As long as you continue to refer to folks you have no personal knowledge of as "goons", I cannot take a thing you say seriously. How many TSA employees have called you a "goon", or better still, how many people call you a "goon" because of your employment? I just can't bring myself to disparage someone because they are executing the policy of their employer. I write to the employer to take on that issue. It¡¦s truly saddening. ƒ¼

Do yourself a favor and look up the word Goon. It perfectly describes the mindless, gungho, "just doing my job" "for your safety" "Don't like it? Tough!" BS attitude that permeates the TSA ranks. If the shoe fits....If it doesn't then don't.
Just cause someone is ignorant doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid. For example my ignorance re: rocket science. Another example of ignorance TSA re: Security. The difference is ...
their ignorance is fraud.

CarmelGreg,

Were you safe when you flew before 9/11?

I'll type this slow, so the TSA'ers here can understand it:

Had the TSA ben on the job on 9/11, with the rules in place at the time, there would have been no difference

NO, I repeat, NO violations of procedures occurred on 9/11. So, there was and still is NO reason for the TSA to exist. The TSA is a boondoggle created by Tom Daschle to add 100,000 more dependants to the government.

The more TSA'ers chant the "We are here to prvent another 9/11" the more they lose their credability.

Otto,

Am I to assume that you are now stalking me too?

Didn't the warning you received the last time you stalked teach you anything????

Ah, so I have to ask your permission before I post in a thread now? Thanks. I'll remember that.

And as for warning about stalking, I don't remember it. Of course, I could have forgotten.

Since you ask, I have a question of my own. Did you learn anything when you were given a permanent ban from posting on FlyerTalk on May 8, 2001, because of repeated flaming?

Yes,

As a matter of fact I did.

Which is why, I have received ZERO Warnings or Suspension since my posting privelidges were re-instated.

That is more than I can say for you, or for that matter the other member who was re-instated at the same time as me.

I do NOT Flame. There is a clique here on FT that thinks any type of disagreement with them is a flame, but they are wrong.

Keep stalking, it only shines a light on the type of person you are.

"Just cause someone is ignorant doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid. For example my ignorance re: rocket science. Another example of ignorance TSA re: Security. The difference is ...
their ignorance is fraud."

CameraGuy,

TSA is a fraud you and CarmelGreg both say it. But the procedures in place are just more strict then they were on 9/11.

So pretty much security has always been a fraud but you never *****ed about it before. You've paid for security before and after 9/11.

Also, I can read fine. And I've stated that I know that security wasn't the reason 9/11 happened.

I have no problem with COMMON SENSE strict rules. Problem is, we do not have any in place now.

What we currently have are [b]IDIOTIC[/]b rules in place. We could have these same IDIOTIC rules in place with the old screeners and be in the same shape we are now.

Difference would be the COST. Right now we have a boondoggle. We have 100,000 more government hacks who are accountable to nobody!

Before Sept. 11th only flyers paid for security. Now I'm paying for it twice as a taxpayer and a flyer. The fraud TSA is perpetrating is costing taxpayers Billions while the fraud of Private only cost us a couple of bucks per flyer. Not sure if your just trying to goad or what however you say TSA is sticter. It's been said before: The only difference is TSA makes us remove our shoes (randomly in USA) even if no alarm, show ID/BP multiple times, and threaten us with damaged property with no recourse, if we decide to lock our checked luggage. We are no safer today than we were 5 years ago. With or without the TSA air safety remains the same. I'd prefer to spend a few billion on other "pet projects".

BTW- I liked the way you handled the "grammar" post the other day. Good job.

My point is this,

Your not any safer now then before 9/11, even with newer or stricter polcies in place. But the fact is you always paid for security but didn't complain. Yeah you pay more now but don't you think you should be provided with something you pay for, safety?

You never got safety, and I feel that will always a problem.

Most of you guys sit and type that you wouldn't mind going back to pre 9/11 screening. And that you would live with the risk.

But then again you argue that TSA can't protect anyone. Problem is, TSA had a solution to the shoe problem almost a year ago but it will never go into effect, because the public will not stand for it.

You constantly argue that TSA makes no strand to help the public, which in a lot of cases, it hasn't. But in some cases it has but the public didn't like it, so TSA didn't do it.

I'll admit, that this post is defending TSA to a point. But the facts are facts, you can only do so much as a organization when the public isn't willing to work with you.

I think TSA needs to get the clue that people aren't willing to be as safe as possible, and just shut down personally.

I agree with you there, however, if and when the next plane goes down due to some terrorist incident, the airlines will be finished as an industry and the only flying will be done by a nationalized airline. Maybe thats not such a bad idea, deregulation was not necessarily such a great thing.

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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Cameraguy was banned for flaming? Gee, thats a surprise... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif



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Don't take life too seriously, afterall, you won't get out alive.

Originally posted by CarmelGreg:

Do yourself a favor and look up the word Goon. It perfectly describes the mindless, gungho, "just doing my job" "for your safety" "Don't like it? Tough!" BS attitude that permeates the TSA ranks. If the shoe fits....If it doesn't then don't.

This from The Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

goon - a man hired to terrorize or kill opponents.

Now I don't know about other screeners I've never terrorized a passenger much less killed one.

Alot of "dead horse" beating going on here.

But I will say this. As stated before, PLEASE come thru my checkpoint and call me a goon !! I'm begging you. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...um/biggrin.gif

They won't say anything. They are the type that slam their bags on the tables, mumble under their breath and sheepishly walk through. But just wait until they get behind their monitor!!! They then will call you a goon and Nazi.

Most TSA people here are trying to give legitimate information. They may not agree with it but they are trying to inform. What do they get for that? Verbal attacks from people who have no idea what they are about.

With some of the treatment I've gotten from some TSA agents (particularly at MLI), I would agree with some of the folks that call some of the agents goons and Nazis. See my post from a couple weeks back to learn more about what I'm talking about. While many TSA agents are nice, polite, efficient, etc. there are a few folks out there in (I presume, from your user ID) your agency who are not. I have encountered people who appear to just be on a large ego/power trip and want to confiscate things that they would like to take home themselves.

While the words "Nazi" and "goon" certainly don't fit the majority of people who work for the TSA (and don't appear to fit the TSA folks who post here at FT) there are unfortunately some people out there that strive to maintain this image for the TSA. It just goes to show that there are bad apples in every organization.

I agree with you 100%-- when the TSA folks that post here are just doing so to inform and help, they should not be subject to verbal attacks. I'd go as far as to say that they (and everybody else) shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks at any time. There are many other ways to debate ideas and disagree with each other, and name-calling doesn't need to be a part of the discourse.

EDITED to fix up a few issues with the QUOTE tag and my post...

[This message has been edited by clrankin (edited Nov 29, 2003).]

1) You are NOT as safe as 5 years ago... TSA is much better!

2) Shoes are removed for various reasons that are SSI information that can not be revealed...

3) You show your ID/BP several times before getting to the checkpoint because the airlines employ ticket checkers to ensure non passengers do not clog up the checkpoint. You may have to show your ID/BP at the FEDERAL checkpoint to get into the checkpoint... Bottom line, DEAL with it!!!

Another happily employed TSA agent http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif

1)Liar

2)Liar

3)No way, deal with all the complaints or get another job doesn't involve working for a disgusting, un-American agency.

Welcome to FlyerTalk.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Are you really sure about that? I guess the thing with shoes is only a secret to the TSA. Check out this article:


FAA had issued warning about terrorists, footwear

December 23, 2001 Posted: 11:24 AM EST (1624 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/12/22/plane.diverted/

Guys and Girls I am pretty new here. Some of you have read my postings. I am a Lead screener at (you can probably guess what airport). Please let me fill those of you in who are not screeners on who we are and what we do. I think that all of the screeners that post here will agree that they took this job mainly because of 9-11 and their true desire to do SOMETHING to make a difference. I know that probably most of us have been greatly disallusioned. I am sorry for that.
For those of you non-screeners, picture yourself sitting next to an x-ray machine. Your knees are probably touching the machine as the bags pass through. At any moment you may see on that screen what you have been trained to identify as an improvised explosive device. It is now probably about six inches from your family-making apparatus. How many times do you think that the thought has gone through our heads "What in the h...ll am I doing here for $25,000. a year, putting myself into this position, and the public doesn't give a d..mn about anything but getting through the process."
Add to that the management attitude that we deal with daily. Is it worth it? I still think that it is, if someday, in some way I may prevent some wacko from getting onto a plane (or deciding to detonate a bomb in our checkpoint)and destroying that plane, maybe hurting or killing you or your loved ones. I think that every screener here feels the same way. When those of you (you know who you are) lay into us, please consider if you would like to do what we do while receiving the appreciation that we get (or don't get).
Please don
t say that I am whining, either. Many, or most of us could make more money in other sectors of the job market, but we decide to put ourselves between you, the flying public, and that idiot out there intent on harming you.
Bless you all

I've said it before...

You the TSA "hero" here at FT, making the skies safe for me and all flyers in the USA (Waving flag: "God Bless Her!") will never in your life, place eyes on a terrorist and know it if you did. You will never thwart a bombing nor will you probably even ever find anything significant in the "war against terror". Sure you may find a switch blade, fire cracker/sparkler, box cutter, perhaps even a gun but none of these items are capable of taking over a plane even when they do get through (as we all know they do). The TSA (and you TSA posters) needs to get over itself and understand that it is not "in the line of fire" and stop trying to get us to believe this crap. Seriously, only grandma and grandpa would buy into your "TSA=Hero". It's unfortunate for you (and your babies) that you feel you must stay in a position, knowing you could make more elsewhere, because of the Captain America cape you decide to wear all in the name of Safety.

carmelgreg, I am feeling sorry for you as I think you have had some really bad experiences flying. But your comebacks crack me up. You are funny http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

CarmelGreg you are so right. We probably never will stop a bomb from going through. I pray that we never have to. Your brillient statement that even if we catch a box cutter or gun they never have taken down a plane is just purely assanine. How do you think that the planes that flew into the world trade center were commandeered? Box cutters! Do you honestly, in your little fogged up vile world really believe that someone intent on taking down a plane couldn't do it with a gun? You really need to use your brain for something other than sitting on.

No, the airlines employ ID checkers to make sure that you didn't transfer your ticket to someone else. If they didn't, people using online checkin and kiosks would be able to cruise through without an ID.

Are you kidding??

The TSA and the ID checkers employed by them couldn't spot a fake ID if their life depended on it. And they'd never discover two similar appearing people who had swapped IDs.

If someone wants to get by the checkpoint in this manner, there is zero that can be done about it. Anyone can have airside access anytime they want. Unfortunately, the TSA chooses to harass all passengers rather than face up to this fact.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

You're right; some of the terrorists on those planes used box cutters to take over the aircraft. But in today's altered world, do you honestly think that could happen again with pocket knives or box cutters? I don't. Pilots have been instructed to resist rather than surrender and give in to the hijackers' demands. Some pilots are now armed as well. (right?) Many passengers, such as I, would also stand up to any terrorist trying to take over the aircraft with box cutters. (part of the reason I fly in aisle seats whenever possible) It's hard to take over the aircraft when you've got 6 people piled on top of you. Box cutters and pocket knives just won't work any more, IMHO.

I would agree. Someone intent on taking down just the aircraft could do it with a gun if they really wanted to. Shooting out a window at 30,000+ feet would cause some significant damage that would at least force the aircraft to land; it would also cause loss of life. Somehow making it into the cockpit and shooting controls, windows, etc. in there would likely cause enough havoc to bring the aircraft down too.

There are the types of things that the TSA should be screening for. Unless you're a pilot or an air marshall, you shouldn't be allowed to bring a gun aboard the aircraft in your carry-on.

I appreciate your seeing my point. I do agree with you that we may never catch a bomb going through the checkpoint. However just that particular situation happened at the Blaine, Wa airport this past year when a fisherman decided to carry through modified sticks of dynamite that he called "seal killers". No, not a terrorist, but the screeners did a job that they, themselves would have probably agreed with you might never happen. Regretably it takes only one successful attempt to cost hundreds their lives. If I, or any of the other screeners here or at the checkpoints can do something to prevent it from happening, I think that we have been worth it.
I also agree with you that these are new times. If a terrorist were to attempt to take over an aircraft now with a knife or box cutter, even a gun possibly, then I for one commend you for the attitude that you will put yourself into a position to do something about it. And yes, there are armed security personnel on planes moreso now than before. The problem is that, the way fate is the hyjacker will be lucky enough to pick the airplane where these precautions don't exist. You have said yourself that it can still be done. Will we at TSA on the lanes be able to stop it? I don't know, but I am willing to try.
Thanks for the post.

Obviously you are a very negative person who just wishes to ***** and moan rather support the Federal program aimed at keeping you, your friends, and your family safe...

Believe it or not, most TSA Agents are current or retired military and law enforcement, they are very educated and yes, they can even spot a fake/altered ID...

Get a life and become positive!!!

What do you actually think brought those planes down??? Small razor blades, the common shaving apparatus...

Try and be a solution to the problem, not a negative person...

all is lost

[This message has been edited by Fenito (edited Dec 21, 2003).]

"Try and be a solution to the problem...""

Wait, the people of this country are already being a solution to the problem by being forced to pay a transport tax, spend endless hours in line per year depending on the frequency of travel, now we are meant to come up with solutions for the incomeptency of those we're paying for?

I don't think so.

Go get a union, get additional hours of training, become standardized. And in the meanwhile, please don't treat the public as the problem instead of the terrorists. Kindly remember too that the public you berate is the self-same "public" that went hurtling into those Twin Towers. Thank you so much.