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-   -   Legality of CDC flu screening (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/2004908-legality-cdc-flu-screening.html)

TWA884 Jan 18, 2020 9:14 am

8 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31963972)
So what happens if passengers refuse screening? From my understanding as American citizen I can't be forced to undergo screening unless it can be established that i am danger to myself or others.

Airports in Japan, Malaysia, Singapore and South Korea use thermal imaging surveillance with scanners, such as the ones shown in the photos below, to screen passengers arriving from Wuhan for fever.

I suspect that the CDC will use similar equipment; I'm not sure how you can refuse such screening.

GUWonder Jan 18, 2020 10:00 am

I travel to see or return to see people whom I wish to see have a healthy and happy life up to their natural end too. The government screening me for a fever using non-invasive means may not do a whole lot of good, but if I have a fever and they want to do a swab test of my nose, I would welcome the chance to cooperate on condition that they stick to the material being used only for public health purposes and such collected material being destroyed upon ruling out exposure to the mutated coronavirus of serious concern.

I understand that some would feel differently than I do about this, but I think it is irresponsible to not consider the potential consequences (for others at least) that may arise from an observed, potential symptom-shower refusing to cooperate when such observed person has recently been in an area with a heightened risk of exposure to the mutated coronavirus of concern.

If I don’t have a fever and don’t report about being in an exposed area or exposed to others with symptoms of concern, then I may not even notice the thermal image production and capture underway. The fever-detecting effort and a verbal or written/entered declaration is how non-invasive the screening can be and generally has been for even Ebola at US and European airports. Without travelers’ honest cooperation in these circumstances,, public health security measures become way less effective and they increase the risk of public health problems (especially for those whose health is more vulnerable than average).

CDTraveler Jan 18, 2020 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 31965690)
I see nothing wrong with a quarantine until a determination is made. Doesn't take that long to determine if a person is a carrier of a given strain of a virus.

I agree with you in that it is reasonable and appropriate to quarantine a sick person arriving by air until a determination is made as to what is causing their illness and what risk they pose to the general public. However as I was reading this thread I was listening a radio piece on the CDC and this new virus. As of today (1/18/2020), the CDC is still working to develop a test to identify the specific virus that appears to have emerged in Wuhan. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html gives the most current update on this situation and precautions being taken.

Boggie Dog Jan 18, 2020 1:12 pm


Originally Posted by CDTraveler (Post 31966524)
I agree with you in that it is reasonable and appropriate to quarantine a sick person arriving by air until a determination is made as to what is causing their illness and what risk they pose to the general public. However as I was reading this thread I was listening a radio piece on the CDC and this new virus. As of today (1/18/2020), the CDC is still working to develop a test to identify the specific virus that appears to have emerged in Wuhan. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html gives the most current update on this situation and precautions being taken.


CDC laboratories currently have the capacity to detect 2019-nCoV by sequencing the virus and comparing the sequences against the genetic sequence that are publicly posted. CDC also is using the genetic sequence data provided by China to begin work on a test to detect this virus more easily. Currently, testing for this virus must take place at CDC.
No currently available fast test but identification is possible. I still believe quarantine is a reasonable precaution in suspected cases.

looker001 Jan 18, 2020 1:34 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 31965690)
A utterly ridiculous statement.

There is an unknown form of pneumonia that has developed in China and so far has migrated to Japan. Treatment options seem limited. This isn't just a China problem but could have a worldwide impact. A non US citizen exhibiting possible symptoms who won't cooperate could be turned away although that presents medical risks to others. A citizen who displays symptoms and won't cooperate would likely be held given authorities time to determine if the person is infected.

I see nothing wrong with a quarantine until a determination is made. Doesn't take that long to determine if a person is a carrier of a given strain of a virus.

Key word is symptoms. However what happens if you have no symptoms and refuse to talk to cdc and also refuse any non invasive testing? Like I said if someone got symptoms that is totally different

TBD Jan 18, 2020 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966653)
Key word is symptoms. However what happens if you have no symptoms and refuse to talk to cdc and also refuse any non invasive testing? Like I said if someone got symptoms that is totally different

I'm not sure what more you expect to get from this thread. You have made an unusual accomplishment to unite FT (almost completely) to reject your position.

Boggie Dog Jan 18, 2020 2:35 pm


Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966653)
Key word is symptoms. However what happens if you have no symptoms and refuse to talk to cdc and also refuse any non invasive testing? Like I said if someone got symptoms that is totally different

Non citizen refusal to admit, citizen involuntary hold. The public's safety overrides the individuals.

looker001 Jan 18, 2020 2:38 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 31966833)
Non citizen refusal to admit, citizen involuntary hold. The public's safety overrides the individuals.

So you are saying that public safety overrides constitutional liberty?

Boggie Dog Jan 18, 2020 2:50 pm


Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966845)
So you are saying that public safety overrides constitutional liberty?

A key role of government is to protect citizens from threats. I think the rights of all others out weight the rights of the individual under these particular circumstances. A short hold is a minor inconvenience to prevent spread of a potentially deadly disease.

I could be wrong but bet the majority of people would agree with me in this particular case.

GUWonder Jan 18, 2020 2:52 pm


Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966653)
Key word is symptoms. However what happens if you have no symptoms and refuse to talk to cdc and also refuse any non invasive testing? Like I said if someone got symptoms that is totally different

If there are no obvious symptoms, then maybe all they want is a written form or note completed giving contact information, recent travel history, upcoming stay plan, and questions about recent presence of some symptoms and to give you a flyer about what to do if you come down with certain symptoms and about why the government is doing what it is doing.

I flew a lot even when concerns about Ebola, MERS, SARS, swine flu and bird flu were peaking for some of my long-haul flights back to the US and so my flights’ passengers got special treatment in some form or another because of screening needs. Unless there were symptoms showing, it worked out almost normally.

arttravel Jan 18, 2020 2:55 pm


Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966845)
So you are saying that public safety overrides constitutional liberty?

Are you trolling at this point? Excuse me while I go walk my pet hippo, I can only do it when dark because of those oppressive laws restricting my freedom to own the pet of my choice.

looker001 Jan 18, 2020 2:59 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31966879)
If there are no obvious symptoms, then maybe all they want is a written form or note completed giving contact information, recent travel history, upcoming stay plan, and questions about recent presence of some symptoms and to give you a flyer about what to do if you come down with certain symptoms and about why the government is doing what it is doing.

I flew a lot even when concerns about Ebola, MERS, SARS, swine flu and bird flu were peaking for some of my long-haul flights back to the US and so my flights’ passengers got special treatment in some form or another because of screening needs. Unless there were symptoms showing, it worked out almost normally.

I got problem with that, specially I feel it's none of their business


Originally Posted by arttravel (Post 31966889)
Are you trolling at this point? Excuse me while I go walk my pet hippo, I can only do it when dark because of those oppressive laws restricting my freedom to own the pet of my choice.

No I am not trolling, I am shocked that people are willing to give up their liberty because government says it's for your own good. I feel that less government there is in my life the better

TWA884 Jan 18, 2020 3:07 pm

Moderator's Note: Keep Political Arguments out of the TSS Policy Debate Forum!
 

Originally Posted by looker001 (Post 31966898)
I am shocked that people are willing to give up their liberty because government says it's for your own good. I feel that less government there is in my life the better

Folks,

There is a very fine line between border security discussion and political debate. It has just been crossed; please do not go there!

Political discussions belong in OMNI/PR (access to OMNI is restricted to members who have been on FlyerTalk for 180 days and have posted 180 contributive messages).

Future posts of a political nature will be summarily deleted without further notice. Repeat offenders will be subject to discipline.

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

Davvidd Jan 18, 2020 3:13 pm

According to the British papers the experts are saying it's useless to screen passengers by this way as they don't know what they are even looking for. They don't even know if anyone infected with this is even going to have a fever.

looker001 Jan 18, 2020 3:18 pm


Originally Posted by dav662 (Post 31966937)
According to the British papers the experts are saying it's useless to screen passengers by this way as they don't know what they are even looking for. They don't even know if anyone infected with this is even going to have a fever.

Do you have a link? That is very interesting news


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