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Originally Posted by Schmurrr
(Post 20669250)
Sarcasm adds nothing to the discussion. It's just the easy way to avoid recognizing that the situation isn't black and white.
I despise the organization that is the TSA. I submitted lengthy comments on the NPRM detailing why it's a loathsome organization, and, so far, I have mailed copies of those comments to Obama, all of the Senators and Representatives on the committees that oversee TSA, and selected media figures. There are a number of bad apples on the TSA front line, and I am not excusing them at all for their abuses of authority, their incompetence, their rudeness, and their thefts. Instead, I am recognizing that there may be legitimate reasons for an otherwise decent person to choose to work at a TSA checkpoint. I am recognizing that TSA employees at the checkpoint actually *are* human. As frustrating as they are, the AFSers are human, too. TSA employees at the checkpoint and AFSers have a lot in common (e.g., they both erroneouly think that TSA leadership's decisions are protecting the country). Just as I demand that TSA respects my humanity and my rights, I feel that I should respect theirs, even though I disagree strongly with their actions. Writing off TSA staff at the checkpoints as sub-human monsters does absolutely nothing to address the problem that is TSA; it likely only makes TSA checkpoint staff more close-minded about the flaws of their leadership. I would far rather they start listening to travelers' concerns--and they are not going to do that if we are also close-minded about the circumstances that led to the otherwise good apples taking a TSA job. I have been careful in this response to distinguish TSA employees at the checkpoint from TSA's leadership. What's wrong at TSA checkpoints originates in the policies (or lack thereof) that come from TSA's leadership and the example that TSA's leadership sets. That's where the responsibility for the Constitutional violations, the molestations, the thefts, etc. lies. Those are the people who started it. TSA's leadership thus far has shown a mindblowing lack of concern about Constitutional rights, the founding principles of the U.S., and basic human dignity. They are aware of these issues--taxpayers and travelers have pointed it out very clearly--but they continue to terrorize the public. They continue to waste millions of dollars. Etc. The rank and file TSOs manning c/ps around the country violate our rights with impunity. Why do they do so? One of three reasons: 1) They are being ordered to do so by the government, which leads them to assume that it's perfectly legal, 2) They don't care about the rights they violate or the people they victimize; for various reasons, they enjoy it or 3) They genuinely believe that physical safety/security is more important than individual liberty and human rights. Reason 1 engenders a slight amount of sympathy from me, because it comes from rank arrogance of the fundamental nature of our country. The average American teenager simply doesn't pay attention in high school history or civics classes, and never really gains an understanding of the ideals and principals upon which the country was founded. They memorize the words of the Pledge of Allegience, the National Anthem, and sometimes the Declaration of Independence or the Preamble to the Constitution, but they never understand what those word mean, or fully grasp the ideas that the words represent. It's a very sad state of affairs, especially given that these ideals and principals were once given much higher importance in the curriculum of every public school in America than they are today., and doubly sad considering the huge number of Americans who have given their lives in defense of those ideals since 1776. Reason 2 is the one most cited here on FT, and is of course the most spurious and infuriating reason. Reason 3 is, to me, equally infuriating, though I at least give credit to those people for acting in good consience, even if they are loonies in my opinion. I suppose it might be better to sum up those three reasons with single words: 1) Stupidity 2) Malice 3) Fear The point being, these are the same reasons why TSA management orders and supports the continuous violation of our rights. Policy or not, people of good consience and sound judgement cannot allow their finances to override their basic principals. The people who pull the triggers are just as culpable as those who give the orders - this has been held to be true for the last 70 years or so, and perhaps even longer, though the Nuremburg Trials are what threw that truth into sharp relief. |
Originally Posted by Denverbounding
(Post 20659224)
But, again, the point being...what is the point. If they want to check inside the secure area, fine. Check people sitting down. The argument that people could run and hide is moot. We were in boarding group 3. He starting checking boarding group 1. We could have run and hid long before our group was called -- but -- of course -- we had nothing to hide. Second, if I know I have a couple hours to kill I might just decide to entertain myself by annoying the crap out of them. "Sorry, can't find my boarding pass. Oh, here it is. Oops, must be that one from last week. Must have left it on the counter in the bathroom - want to come with me to check? Here's another one. I don't know why there are not any magic marker squiggles on it. I demand you change your gloves before touching my ID. Here is my high school library card from 1985. What do you mean it is not acceptable ID? They took it at the checkpoint. Have you accepted the Flying Spaghetti Monster as your lord and savior? Are you discriminating against me for being a pastafarian? I demand to see your supervisor......" Less work for them is the primary reason. |
TSA in the boarding area at LAX, checking IDs and tickets. Very creepy. It felt like "your papers, please" time. Is this still my beloved country?
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Originally Posted by Dea Certe
(Post 27996088)
TSA in the boarding area at LAX, checking IDs and tickets. Very creepy. It felt like "your papers, please" time. Is this still my beloved country?
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New ID checks at gate on domestic flights
Flew out of ANC yesterday, and TSA was checking IDs at the boarding gate. They were using a black light to check the hologram for authenticity, so it didn't appear they were looking for a specific passenger, but that you matched the ticket you were boarding with. Did anyone else have this? It did not slow the boarding process down, but I don't really see much value other than safeguarding bureaucratic jobs.
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It's part of the "TSA Full Employment And DHS Funding Act." It guarantees that if the TSA has too many employees at a particular airport, they will create useless work to give those employees something to do.
Mike |
Periodic extra screening for some flights at the gate has been around since the inception of the TSA, though in my experience it is relatively infrequent now, I was never under the impression it had been completely eliminated.
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The value is to keep security measures unpredictable
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As others have said, this is not new, but it it infrequent. I have seen this 2 or 3 times in the past 5 years.
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There's little value in most anything the TSA does. But yes, this is one of the many pointless activities TSA has engaged in for years to give the public the impression that they're providing "security."
This is also not DL-specific. |
There also may have been someone without the proper papers trying to eek out a living in the fishing industry who's a clear and present danger to the country who needed to be ICED'd
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Originally Posted by mikeef
(Post 28383782)
It's part of the "TSA Full Employment And DHS Funding Act." It guarantees that if the TSA has too many employees at a particular airport, they will create useless work to give those employees something to do.
Mike And it proves that the initial harassment is ineffective Because if step one worked how would anyone get to the gate without a valid id? (Want to confuse the clueless TSA personnel, ask them that and watch them stammer! LOL!) |
Originally Posted by jalves
(Post 28383828)
The value is to keep security measures unpredictable
Originally Posted by jdrtravel
(Post 28383871)
As others have said, this is not new, but it it infrequent. I have seen this 2 or 3 times in the past 5 years.
If it is that infrequent, doesn't that mean that it is very predictable that an ID check won't happen:p
Originally Posted by kop84
(Post 28383877)
There also may have been someone without the proper papers trying to eek out a living in the fishing industry who's a clear and present danger to the country who needed to be ICED'd
Wouldn't TSA's finest have caught that at the initial checkpoint? Unfortunately, I think the answer to that question does not provide a lot of optimism:rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Orange County Commuter
(Post 28383941)
And it proves that the initial harassment is ineffective
Because if step one worked how would anyone get to the gate without a valid id? (Want to confuse the clueless TSA personnel, ask them that and watch them stammer! LOL!) |
No doubt that this thread will end up in TS&S before long, but as to the OP's point, I fail to see the point of identity checks at all. I know we've discussed this ad nauseam over there but, if the TSA were doing its job, then it wouldn't matter who was coming through security.
If the airlines want to check IDs for revenue protection, that's their business. Mike |
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