EditingFX

and.... "Don't tell me NOW that you want my pistol!"

Widgets

Gate agents hand out the wrong boarding passes sometimes. Criminals can print a new boarding pass for a new itinerary airside at a kiosk. Criminals can pick up someone else's boarding pass off the ground. There are a few ways to circumvent this.

Criminals could have a prohibited item hidden airside, or they could steal a prohibited item from a locked area airside.

javabytes

While I find that quite humorous, I'm sure there are plenty of TSOs who would consider the p word one step away from the b word... and thus not a joke I'd ever make in the moment. I'm perfectly happy to confound them with pure logic.

pvn

They could make you hop on one leg down the jetway on 10% of flights, that would be unpredictable

javabytes

I'm with mikeef on this - what does it matter?

If a "criminal" picks up someone else's boarding pass and try to board their flight with it, it's going to surface when that person also tries to board their flight with a new BP.

If they're printing out a BP for a new itinerary, what does it matter? Presumably they've already been screened by TSA. Unless TSA is willing to concede their checkpoints are ineffective... an issue completely unrelated to identity. And I think I've changed travel plans post-security dozens of times over the years.

Prohibited items airside are not in any way related to whether a person's actual name matches their ID either.

Widgets

If an unknown person boards a flight [edit: with a boarding pass that doesn't have his name on it] and wreaks havoc, is the public going to blame the airline or the TSA?

javabytes

If the gate staff is doing its job, they should easily detect the duplication, no? First passenger on board will be fine. Second passenger who tries to scan will get an "already on board" message. Even if that fails, the final count should also catch the extra body. I would fully expect this to be detected before the door is closed... and any time that doesn't happen, it's the gate's fault.

And again, even suppose all this failed, what exactly is the headline? "Passenger who booked ticket and was fully screened got on different flight and no one noticed?" What does it matter if somebody books a ticket to Chicago, goes through all TSA screening, and then gets on a plane to LAX instead? Sure, they don't have a ticket for that flight - that's the airline's problem - but it's a big stretch to say they're suddenly a security risk?

Widgets

Headcounts aren't done for mainline flights, so if I were the person in question, I would board with a stolen BP and sit in an open seat according to the seat map on the mobile app. They would have to dump the whole plane to find me that way.

javabytes

Again, if you've already bought your own ticket and gone through security screening (which the TSA purports to be effective), so what? You've effectively stolen a ticket on that new flight, but you're no more dangerous on that new flight than you would have been on your original flight.

Widgets

The TSA purports it to be effective but not foolproof or perfect. You don't need to have a purchased ticket to get through security. I could imagine it's possible for someone to get a gate pass with bad Secure Flight data in order to circumvent the watch list, then board a flight. This is also possible for a ticketed passenger, but that's more difficult with recent IT updates that inhibit checkin when the Secure Flight name doesn't match the name on the ticket.

As long as the TSA's security checkpoint screening process isn't perfect (didn't they fail 90%+ of their tests last year?) I think extra tactical screening is necessary for public safety. I've heard they're having employees go through screening at some airports.

javabytes

So in other words, all these things are stopgap measures because the actual checkpoint screening is ineffective?

jdrtravel

The argument that extra security measures proves that the main checkpoints are ineffective falls flat. Any sophisticated security system should include extra systems in the event that another system fails. I know that hating on TSA is a favorite pastime of FTers, but this particular point is just not logical. I'm not saying that the main checkpoints DO work, but just that having extra systems in place only means that they have extra systems in place, and nothing more.

I can't think of any important security set up where there are not multiple systems in place to make it stronger. For example, large events that have ticket booths/security often also require a wristband, even though all those people have been through security. Banks perform criminal background checks on all employees, but then workers are still required to go through several steps to access cash from the vault. I am fairly certain that if TSA did not have multiple steps in place they would be roundly critiqued on here for just that.

javabytes

Not disputing that... but to use your analogy, this would be the equivalent of an event that prints names on wristbands, and has security randomly floating through the event to stop people with wristbands and check their ID against the name on their wristband.

jdrtravel

My point is that most security systems including fail safe measures, and that this does not in and of itself prove that there is anything wrong with the primary security.

Another example is the blood bank system. All blood is screened. However, people who have traveled to certain countries or who have engaged in certain high risk behaviors (IV drug use, for example), are not eligible to donate blood. This does not mean the blood screening does not work, but it is a sensible extra precaution when the stakes are so high. In air travel, the stakes a really high.

obscure2k

Please continue to follow this discussion in the TS/S Forum
Thanks..
Obscure2k
Delta Moderator