Organic Matter
 

Out of curiosity, had you been asked if you had anything organic in your carry-on, how would you have answered? I've read of more than a handful of people (including Mr. Vanderklok) being asked that question*, answering "no" never considering the protein bars to be organic and then being threatened and subjected to the whole shebang because their response was "not truthful".

Organic matter

*There seemed to be a spate of "organic matter" questions for a while and I wondered if this was designed purposefully so that screeners could do more invasive screenings, knowing most people would answer "no".


File a complaint with the DHS IG: https://www.oig.dhs.gov/hotline/hotline.php

After 6 pleasant months in Thailand some Customs <redacted> at LAX freaked
out over some Thai beach sand at the bottom of my backpack,
insisting it was "organic" until his colleague told him to shut up.
What's the obsession over organic matter, anyway? I don't get it.
I think these guys have watched too many CSI shows...<redacted>

An example of the integrity of TSA clerks in general can be found in the TSA blog's response to Vanderklok's acquittal (on the ground that the [perjured] testimony of the TSA clerk, even if true, did not give evidence of a crime), and his suit against the TSA over the false arrest:

http://blog.tsa.gov/2015/02/response...arrest-at.html

Excerpt:

Mr. Vanderklok was arrested on January 26, 2013 on a charge (supported by a perjured statement) of making terroristic threats, and was only released 23 hours later, after posting $40,000 bond. The TSA Blog post, which came two years after the arrest, and after the acquittal and suit, avoided mentioning the acquittal and tried to make the arrest appear legitimate. This behavior shows both the clumsiness and the dishonesty of the members of the TSA blog team. And the OP's experience, really, is an instance of corruption. The TSA clerk used his position for personal reasons - he took actions that were directed not toward providing security, but only to abuse a passenger, or to make himself feel important - who knows. This is the same fundamental lack of integrity that infects the TSA blog, and such wasting of time and focus on issues other than correct, courteous screening, is the reason that the TSA misses 95% of all weapons presented at checkpoints.

Everyone has organic matter with them in their bags. Books are made of paper. Many things are packaged in cardboard. Any liquid in the 3-1-1 bag probably has some amount of dissolved organic matter.

But back to the topic of this thread, I've flown out of several smaller airports and I've noticed a couple of them have had stricter-than-normal security checks, probably due to the lack of passengers and the agents trying to justify their own jobs. They don't feel the pressure to keep the lines moving like at larger hubs. But there are certainly many smaller airports where this doesn't happen.

Of course they do, but when TSA asks if they have anything organic in your bag, most people are going to think of some kind of fruit or plant material, not books or granola bars.

I'd wager that most screeners don't have a clue what organic matter is and if the traveler answered "yes" and went on to list all the organic items in his/her bag, there would be trouble big time at the checkpoint, with threats of arrests or fines.

If they ask about 'organic' matter, I'm going to ask 'what do you mean by organic'?

If you ask me anywhere besides the checkpoint if I have anything 'organic', I automatically assume you mean 'organic' food/products. If I have a non-organic apple and a Snickers bar, I wouldn't answer 'yes'.

If TSA asks me, I answer the same way I do when they ask me if I have anything sharp in my bag: not that I can think of.

After all, I usually have books and papers in my bag. I have sustained a few nasty paper cuts over the years when I happened to reach into my own bag the wrong way. I've even cut myself on the edge of my home-printed BP. Paper cuts on finger tips are not only nasty, they could get me arrested at the check point if I failed to declare the sharp-edged paper in my bag.

In today's world the term organic can mean different things. At the grocers one apple may be organic and another not. Perhaps TSA should ask the question in another way.

The non metal components in a bag are made of plastic and man made fabric, which are made from oil, which makes the entire bag itself "organic" from the chemistry definition of "contains carbon."

Do you have to take high school chemistry for a GED?

Not that I in any way agree with this TSA ridiculousness, and I would have reacted similarly in your shoes - but as an aside, the sand at some beaches can consist heavily of calcium carbonate from ground up shells. Still, a TSA clerk shouldn't be claiming to know the composition of a given bit of sand, much less hassling you about it.

Seems like a reasonable response to their silly question.

Organic matter?

My backpack is primarily nylon. That's derived from oil--it's organic.

Organic in a chemistry sense refers to carbon compounds (with some exceptions). So, anything made from anything that ever lived is organic. Are you wearing wool? Cotton? Linen? Leather? Are you carrying coffee? You, of course, are organic.

I was coming back from a diving vacation and everything in my camera bag was swabbed and then everything was taken apart and examined. The TSA person said that the swabs had revealed "unexpected organic results".

Oh, great, bring actual science into the argument and confuse everyone. :D

In TSA land, "organic" is one of those words (like "respect" or "voluntary") that they just say without really knowing what it means.

My office cafeteria once stocked a brand of (unflavored) bottled water labeled "Organic H20". After a bunch of scientifically literate staff said "oooh, yuck, I'm not drinking that!" and explained what organic meant, the cafeteria switched to a different brand. ;)

I wouldn't drink "organic H-twenty" either :D

Jet fuel is organic. :D Need those hydrocarbons to get me around. :D When will we see "USDA organic" jet fuel at an airport near us soon? Maybe after the turf wars -- or is it tarmac wars??? -- the DHS can regulate that too. ;)

The country -- and the world -- has an education and labor market deficit/dynamic that shows up in various ways at airports too. This is just one way. But the audience for these questions is also part of the issue, since colloquialial vernacular and scientific language are separated by a deep chasm in some ways.

The problem isn't the scientific v. colloquial use of the term 'organic' (or 'sharp' or 'food'). The problem is that instead of training 45K employees to use 'organic' the same way, TSA prefers to hound and harass millions of flyers for not understanding the many different ways TSOs use the word 'organic'.

The problem for pax is that you never know when you're going to encounter an aggressive TSO who, with the full support of his/her co-workers, LTSOs, STSOs and supervisors, uses a particular interpretation of the word to harass and bully pax.

The best tactic I have found is to grovel, ask what exactly the TSO in front of you means by 'organic' or 'sharp' or 'food', and then over-declare anything and everything I can possibly think of. If worse comes to worse, I'll say I didn't have my bag in my sight at all times and it's possible someone in the family could have slipped something in unawares. That will likely get me a punitive extended bag search, but AFAIK, it's not illegal yet to have someone in the family slip something into your bag without your knowledge. I can't be accused of failing to disclose something I didn't know was in my bag.

How did they even have it in the first place? Wouldn't it take incredible pressure to make a H[sub]20[/sub] molecule in the first place?

"Officer, I don't understand what you mean by 'organic.'"

Even if DHS employees were to use a phrase in the same way all the time for a given purpose, passengers may not all understand the phrase/term in the same way all the time.

I'd be surprised if the shoes of most returning government and military officials coming back from assignments/work trips abroad had no foreign "organic matter" on them. Yet CBP gives most such people and the rest a pass at customs even as there may be potential harm for our environment from what is on the bottom of most of those shoes. It's because even CBP doesn't entirely understand that they really aren't designed to catch everything

This.

Yeah, that's what I get for typing on FT while doing something else at the same time. ;)


http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/organic-water-claims-misleading-says-watchdog-20130715-2q0wj.html

In PHL today, I asked the TSA agent that went through every corner of my bag (that has been with me for five weeks through probably more than 15 airports without problem overseas), what exactly should I not bring next time that might be concerning. She said, "organic matter." I said, "what does that mean." She said, "I can't tell you." My jaw dropped...so you're violating my property...opening personal gifts I have brought for people without my consent, but can't tell me why?

Can someone please point me to official documentation as to why? You can read the ingredients on the food package? Why open the entire thing so that is no longer sanitary? I have had TSA break zippers and even glass items in my bag and shrug before walking away...someone with no educational background should not be given this power. It's beyond insane...they feed on it.

And some people still can't understand why it's called Security Theater. Ridiculous.

"I can't tell you" means "I don't know, but I will act like I do by being authoritative." Anyone who didn't sleep through high school chemistry knows that the definition of "organic" is any chemical compound with a carbon base -- the building block of life as we know it. Telling clerks to search for "organics" sounds sinister, terroristic and invokes freedom-saving motivation. Next time, tell her that she has about 500 ML of organics at this very instant inside her body (average capacity of the human bladder)! (Urea (i.e.: urine) = CH4N2O )

Actually carbonmonoxide, carbon dioxide, carbonates, and cyanides are generally considered inorganic. But these are exceptions.

I restricted my scope to high school chemistry! ;)

The simplest definition of "organic matter" that I have found in the public forum is "an item of decaying plant or animal material". This opens up the definition to include anything made from animals, or plants (living items) - clothes, wooden items, food items that are plant based or animal based. TSOs should be able to relate that to someone that asks them (at least, in my experience, the vast majority of them have been able to). The same goes for inorganic materials - inorganic is simply defined as things that are not derived from living organisms (if we get a bit more technical, I believe a more precise definition is material that lacks carbon that was organically produced - although, I am not a Scientist). Most TSOs will be able to articulate the differences to a passenger. YMMV (I know, I know!), but I have heard tons of TSOs at a few airports explain this quite well.

99.99999% of travelers transiting a TSA Checkpoint truly want to do things that help themselves through the Blue Glove Gauntlet. When screeners play coy and won't explain a concern so that we can assist in the process it only makes TSA seem petty and certainly doesn't build allies. Travelers are not your enemy even though we are too often treated that way. TSA screeners should remember at all times that they are the face of TSA, not the FSD, AFSD, or other higher ups. Want to make your jobs easier? Then build trust and rapport with travelers.

I have mirrored many of your statements here and at other sites. I have always indicated that passengers are not the enemy, they are simply people trying to get from point A to point B with as little hassle as possible. A passenger that comprehends what is going on, and what is being asked/explained of/to them, they are much more likely to be:

A. Understanding of the process, even if they don't understand the reasoning behind it or agree with it
B. Able to get through the checkpoint with less challenge
C. Willing participants in the process (which removes many of the other challenges that passengers routinely face)

I (and many of my coworkers) work hard to foster a cooperative environment, all day, every day. None of us is perfect, but the minimum that passengers should expect is a professional engagement that is courteous - and the organization incorporates that attitude in almost every single organized training class we have. It is a benchmark in the Basic training program that TSOs go through at FLETC. If a TSO is professional, courteous and follows the SOP, almost all of the escalations become about TSA policy, or personal issues of the passenger, not the TSO standing in front of you (at least, for the vast majority of escalations). Building that rapport and connections with the flying public creates a much calmer checkpoint, which usually translates to an easier transition for passengers (and for the TSOs, if we are going to be completely honest). I have always agreed with you on many of these points.

Highlighting above mine.

Issues that I have experienced were caused by power tripping TSA screeners, excepting one thief screener.

Case in point! Also And do note that this outstanding example of TSA professionalism is a 3 striper.

https://youtu.be/RhD-AvD3-OE

Is there anything in the TSA's protocols against telling the passenger what the TSO is looking for in their bag?

A couple of months ago, my personal item, a North Face Router Transit Backpack, was pulled out for manual inspection in the PreCheck lanes at LAX. It has many zippers and several compartments, so I offered to guide the TSO to the location of object of the search if he were to tell me what he was looking for (I had several Li-ion battery powered electronic devices in the backpack, including an HP Spectre x360 computer, rechargeable Beats noise-cancelling headphones and a Samsung 10,000 mAh portable cellphone charger).

I don't recall the exact answer, but he refused to tell me what he was looking for and proceeded to open just about every compartment, while constantly referring to the x-ray image on his computer monitor. Finally, he opened my Dopp kit and discontinued the search when apparently noticing a new, still in its paper wrapping, 5 oz. bar of soap.

He started repacking my bag. I asked to be allowed do it myself, as I can organize the contents to make the backpack less bulky and fit under the seat; he let me. However, when I inquired about what triggered the search - in order to avoid similar issues in the future - he wouldn't tell me.

IIRC, this has been discussed in the past on this forum.

The problem is that when a pax asks what triggered the alarm, the TSO has no way of knowing if the pax is an innocent person trying to educate himself on how to improve the checkpoint process for everyone or a bad guy 'testing' the system.

If hypothetical 'bad guy' has three questionable items, TSA doesn't want to reveal to him which one(s) got caught by the xray. That just makes it easier for 'bad guy' to find a way to avoid detection the next time.

Nearly every time my wife or I have had a bag check, the screener has pointed out what the problem item was. Sometimes they even ask, as they start the search, "Looks like you might have a such-and-such? I just need to check it." or something similar.

YMMV obviously.

Except you completely ignored the statement you highlighted. I stated that if a TSO is professional and courteous - it becomes about policy or personal issues on the passengers part, not the TSO in front of them. One snippet of video does not encompass the entire event that happened. I will not excuse the attitude or behavior by the individual in this video, I have no problem saying that this should have been handled differently. I have done so in the past - your willful omission of that says volumes. I openly agree that we have some employees that exhibit a lack of professionalism (at least some of the time, based upon the videos I have seen). Painting our entire workforce with that same brush is a shallow abuse of words, and shows an unwillingness to see other things that are there. Power-trippers, thieves and unprofessional TSOs are not acceptable, and never will be - if you see it, please file complaints, or link them to me here, I will send them to the customer service folks. These types of videos, I will welcome the chance to forward those to the customer service folk at HQ.

I have never heard of a direct prohibition of communicating with a passenger about items in their bags during a bag check, actually, the opposite has always been the case in my experience. I like to talk to the passenger as I am doing a bag check, it helps to set their mind at ease, and sometimes they can help you locate something small, or find a specific compartment that holds the item you are looking for. The main prohibitions are for the passenger not to touch the bag or anything that is taken out of it during the bag check (which has been the case since roll out). As far as repacking, if it is one item I have removed, I usually place it back as close to the original position as possible, if I have to take several items out, I ask the passenger if they would like to repack the bag, or if they would like me to do it - recognizing that many frequent or business travelers pack their bag a certain way is just using common sense. Talking to a passenger while doing the bag check, asking questions, and just treating them like a human being will often make a bag check more efficient for both of us. I don't understand not telling you what the item was on the back end, you just watched the TSO take the item out of the bag and do some form of inspection on it - logic would dictate that you can see what I am looking at, why not tell you to remove any chance of confusion, as well as let you prepare differently in the future if you so desire.

I see TSA screeners on a different level than you do. We are on opposite sides of the fence and our views will be based on which side we are viewing the event from. There have been way too many unprofessional TSA screeners I have run across in my travels. Are they the norm? I certainly hope not but they are far more likely to leave a lasting impression than the guy/gal quietly doing their job the right way. I purposely pulled an example of about as far from professional that I could find with the point being that this guy has advanced from a day one screener to a STSO who trains and leads others. TSA's chain of command tolerates this person and even promoted him. This wasn't a first time act for this guy, just the first time it was recorded. I'm guessing this guys command considered him a professional. You paint TSA as all top notch professionals who wouldn't say a bad word if someone stomp their foot. I don't see it that way. I know that in any distribution of people there will be good, average, and bad people. Sadly early on TSA seems to get a barrel full of the worst of the worse. It will take years to get rid of them through attrition. Also, if TSA screeners are taught that they are on the front lines of the war on terror then I think that will color how they interact with people. TSA is not even close to the front lines and their jobs aren't a high risk occupation. TSA attitude developed in new hires plays a role on how passengers will be treated as the employee grows with the organization. Bad trainers, bad employees.

You often say to file complaints. I have and nothing comes of them. I had one incident covered up by the airports FSD. Complaints used to be trashed, others just gather dust. Whatever the process is now I don't know, hopefully someone has required investigation of received complaints.

While we are doing some painting perhaps mixing our colors would be helpful!

Recall this from the OIG's recent report:

That pretty much says that TSA will hire anyone who can pass a background check.

That could be very helpful at times. I recall some years ago going through security at PVG. They were looking for something without much luck, I had no idea from their description what it might be. Then they showed me the x-ray--bingo. It was a set of chopsticks my wife had bought and which I didn't realize were metal. I had packed it as I generally do such long, thin items that I want to protect--against the handle rails, behind the liner. (They stay in place much better that way. I wouldn't have done that had I realized what they were made of.)

"Sir what part of organic do you not understand ?"

You: Well my bag and most everything is organic"

" So you want to be a smart alec? Secondary including cavity search" !

Apparently, not too many screeners know that fact.