Originally Posted by gingersnaps
(Post 26549906)
Washingtonpost Sep. 2015
"TSA has kept in place another program (Managed Inclusion I) that allows travelers to use the PreCheck line as long as they have been pre-screened by TSA canines." It was kind of like a slow-motion 'wave' at a stadium - heads turned to look as the cutie dog and handler made their way down the lines, toddlers and little kids' hands reaching out to try to pet the dog. Didn't see anyone trying to take his picture though. |
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 26550062)
Hmmm...well, I guess I witnessed an example of TSA's 'consistent inconsistency'. The pooch went up and down both Pre and regular lines and disappeared. No one was shifted from Pre to the regular lane (or vice versa).
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 26548995)
Reasonable security steps can and should be taken but at some point those steps become burdensome and unnecessary. I think the Whole body Imagers, shoes, belts, and LGA restrictions are examples of security steps that are just not necessary.
What screening would you say is necessary or should be taken? |
Originally Posted by gingersnaps
(Post 26550075)
What was happening at the xrays and AITs?
The dog was a cutie, and obviously added another layer of security, but it didn't change anyone's wait time (for better or worse - I didn't see the dog alert or anyone get pulled from the line). |
Originally Posted by petaluma1
(Post 26549934)
Even AskTSA admits that people are assigned to the non-existent precheck lanes based on vetting before they even get to the airport.
Was it you, Boggie Dog, that said that people over 70 are also regularly given precheck? I am not saying that Managed Inclusion has ended but that is what 'Fouled Anchor' Neffenger has been saying. I have benefited from MI a few times but Pre has always shown on my boarding pass not by BDO/Dog selection. The real issue is the lack of support for Pre by TSA while going gangbusters on trying to enroll more gullible travelers. |
IIRC, I thought there was a 'rule change' a few years ago that potentially allowed under 12's and over 75's to keep shoes and light outerwear, depending on the airport/checkpoint. I'm not sure, but I think it might have been before Pre. I think the problem was that kids and the elderly disproportionately slowed things down when they removed their shoes and then put them back on, often right at the belt. The justification, oddly enough, was that these two age groups generally represented a slightly lower risk. That's a huge departure from hearing that terrorists were known to use children and handicapped people in wheelchairs.
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Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 26545999)
Do you by any chance know if that 4000 figure includes people who retired?
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Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 26550293)
IIRC, I thought there was a 'rule change' a few years ago that potentially allowed under 12's and over 75's to keep shoes and light outerwear, depending on the airport/checkpoint. I'm not sure, but I think it might have been before Pre.
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Originally Posted by gingersnaps
(Post 26550091)
What is your reasoning that each of those is not necessary? Isn't each process a reaction to an actual unsuccessful incident?
What screening would you say is necessary or should be taken? I think the Whole body Imagers, shoes, belts, and LGA restrictions are examples of security steps that are just not necessary. One could also look at the rate of occurrence of any particular style off attack. None for belts that I am aware of. One shoe bomber some billion or so passengers ago. And I guess we have to look back at Bojinka to find an attack that used a liquid as an attack. I would suggest that the risk of attacks that these steps supposedly reduce is not worth the manpower or cost. |
Originally Posted by BSBD
(Post 26553411)
The rule allowing those under 12/over 75 to keep shoes and jackets on is 3 years old. PreCheck was started in late 2011.
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
(Post 26553966)
I have it as being 4 years ago, May of 2012 for old folks and kids in October of 2011.
I think you're spot-on with the kids' rule change. |
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 26549213)
Has anyone ever actually witnessed people in the regular line who have passed the 'smell test' being moved to the Pre lane (assuming it was open)?
If there are no Pre lanes, then the only point to the dogs is to avoid a Brussels scenario.
Originally Posted by chollie
(Post 26549515)
?? TSA says they've got sniffer dogs and they're going to be getting more. I'm taking their word for it. They don't have a lot of dogs right now, so it doesn't surprise me that I've rarely seen them.
Somehow I don't think I'm getting my point across to you - and I acknowledge that's apparently my fault. TSA says they have dogs and will be getting more. TSA says managed inclusion is dead. TSA says the dogs will speed up security. How will the dogs speed up security if they are sniffing pax in a terminal with no Pre line? How will the dogs speed up security if they sniff both Pre and regular lines (what I witnessed) and go away? If the dogs aren't being used to speed up security (no Pre lanes or they sniff everybody but no one appears to pass the sniff test - no one gets 'expedited'), then what are they being used for in those circumstances? I can only think of two things. 1) it's MUCH faster than swabbing/testing everyone, so it's an added 'layer', but it doesn't speed anything up. 2) it's a way of preventing a Brussels-style attack by eliminating the possibility of explosives in the packed lines. If you can think of another possible reason for using the dogs while not expediting any pax, I'm all ears! Seriously! It was, I must say, the easiest, quickest, least-invasive screening I've had since scope-and-grope started. I was through it in less than ten minutes, despite the volume of travelers being equal to what, in my experience, has caused 30-45 minute waits at that same queue in the past. Heck, I think it was the best screening experience I've seen since 9/11, although I believe the addition of an ETD canine and the ETD machines were both reasonable, non-invasive improvements over the standard pre-9/11 screening. To be clear, this was the main queue, not a PreCheck queue. It literally handled half of MCO's traffic (for those who have never been, MCO had two queues, one at each end of the main terminal, each handling half of the airport's 129 gates). There didn't appear to be any separate PreCheck queue that day, since all travelers were essentially being including in PreCheck-style screening. I had some hope afterward that this would become the new norm, but later I read about MI II, and that it had ended, and on my last trek through MCO the queue was back to normal, with AIT for most, no penalty box, no canine, no ETD swabs, and a 40-minute wait with about the same volume of travelers. Ponderous, man. Ponderous.
Originally Posted by BSBD
(Post 26549738)
My apologies if we're not communicating well. Here's what I'm trying to say:
I do not believe that TSA is making ANY effort to prevent a land-side attack, like the Brussels attack. It's not their job. Their job is to try to prevent damage to airside and aircraft. It's not about the passengers and other airport patrons (which were the target of the Brussels attackers), it's about the "essential infrastructure." The dogs are not there to stop Brussels-style attackers. They are there to add a sense of legitimacy to random inclusion (aka Managed Inclusion). |
Originally Posted by WillCAD
(Post 26560665)
The queue post-TDC was altered to create a penalty box in the middle, where the canine and handler were stationed. The rest of the queue was routed around the penalty box, giving the dog plenty of opportunity to sniff passing travelers. Once they passed the dog, travelers then entered a larger queue area where about a dozen ETD machines were set up in a row, each with a TSO manning it. Every traveler had their hands swabbed and tested, and moved on.
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I fail to see the need for both Explosive Sniffer Dog and Explosive Trace Portal. Seems to be a duplication of effort.
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
(Post 26560709)
I fail to see the need for both Explosive Sniffer Dog and Explosive Trace Portal. Seems to be a duplication of effort.
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