I use CWA a bit too, more so around hunting season. Let's just say Vikings or Bear gear can get comments too.

The TSA personnel at CWA seem to be a pretty friendly lot. It's one of my more frequented TSA stations where I've never observed a bad attitude. I think that has more to do with the region and with the small, more rural airports having TSA screeners who know they are often no more than one or two degrees removed from social connections with the passengers outside of the airport too. But that social proximity isn't a requirement for TSA employees to not have a bad attitude toward passengers. I've seen lots of rather friendly TSA screeners at various Midwest and Pacifc Northwest airports, large and small. But between the bad attitude screeners and bad TSA policies, passengers will give the TSA all the criticism which the TSA deserves.

TSA and its employees don't get near the amount of criticism that they truly deserve.

.....

Evidently TSA agents are more likely to have a sense of humor than FF posters ...

Probably has something to do with which side of the bars one is on.

^^^

^

Ah, no. A large dose of bitter hatred of FT criticism of the TSA is often a way to drive a thread that gives the TSA its due in relevant ways.

Sorry -- We have no choice other than to assume that we are being "checked out" by SPOTNiks using the "casual conversation" technique. You have all the power and authority and the only responses from us are to not respond to your humor-based interrogation techniques, to flip you off while assuming the surrender pose in the <deleted by moderator>, or to make you change and test gloves when groping us.

^^^^

Granted I could be completely wrong, but I was under the impression that SPOT was being greatly reduced/phased out.

Regardless, I could care less if they want to SPOT me or not, I am going to be myself and they (SPOT or any other TSA Employee) can like or lump it as far as I am concerned.

A while back I had a SPOT attempt to converse with me in the terminal and I was honest that I had complied with all rules and cleared the checkpoint and now I was going to get a drink in the lounge, if he would like to converse any further I said he was more than welcome to sit with me in the lounge and have a drink but that he would have to cover his own admission. I added, I am a gregarious person by nature and wouldn't mind the company.

Oddly enough, never saw him again. ^^

My Wife till this very day is mortified that I did that, she always asks what if he decided to follow you into the lounge and I always respond we could have had an extensional conversation, probably would have been interesting, plus I never miss an excuse to hear myself speak. ;)

You may have no problem with Spot today.

But how about on the day that some TSA BDO decides your actions, look, or some other unknown and unscientific observation makes you suspect of some unknown something that can interrupt your travel and you have absolutely no defense since TSA's BDO/Spot program has been proven to be flawed?

Reducing TSA's BDO program is not the right solution, shutting it down and removing those employees, as excess, from the public payroll is the only correct answer.

You are welcome to assume what you wish, it will have no impact upon my work ethic or professionalism in the least. I will continue to have a sense of humor, be polite and professional at work in all things. As for flipping off an inanimate object, while being screened, more power to you, I am quite certain that it will be suitably offended.

Professionals should not be forcing a captive audience to respond to their personal chat for fear of retaliation.

As a TSO, you know nothing about me and my state of mind when I approach your checkpoint. You do not know if your 'witticism' strikes a painful nerve, nor do you know whether or not I am flying because of a family tragedy and in no mood to play along with you. I should not be forced to play along with you because I want to make my flight.

For similar reasons, I would never dare initiate a light-hearted conversation with a TSO. If I pick the wrong TSO and inadvertently give offense, I could be in big trouble.

No one should ever have their right to travel challenged because they wish not to engage in conversation with a government employee unless that person is a law enforcement officer engaged in a lawful interview.

TSA's BDO program and the employees engaged in that program offer nothing of value to either the public or to TSA.

As I recall, you're a SPOTNik, correct? I'm not surprised at all that you turned it around to make yourself believe I was flipping off an "inanimate object" instead of the clerks operating it.

Tangentially:
I get that, I truly do, I just take the approach of it is what it is, I am powerless to do much about it and while I can and do complain, I also understand that I am just some dude and the people who have the power to make the needed changes could give a hoot about what I think.

Understanding that I am powerless leaves me as I see it one choice, do what I want which makes me happy. As any potential negative consequences are going to happen pretty much no matter what I do, so when and if anything negative happens I will deal with it then.

Said another way, I can worry about it today or down the road if need be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can say this much I know at least one TSA Employee who is a nice guy and he happens to be there just to collect a pay check. A Paramedic I see in the hospital all the time works Part-Time as a TSA Screener to make some extra money to help pay for his upcoming wedding. He and I have often talked about his screening job and he basically says that it is a job like any other, he tries to do it as best he can but he admits that the overarching TSA makes it difficult and sometimes seemingly inane.

He has said a few times that they are trained on policy and procedure, (e.g. how to screen something) but not the whys and wherefores which he feels causes many of the problems we all talk about. He said if a reason is given for something it is so generic as to not really explain anything at all, which leaves room for the TSA employee to make up their own reason for what they are doing and many times he feels leads to the Super Cop Syndrome as if you feel you are doing something Super Important it becomes less of a job and more of a heroic act. He takes the attitude of I do it because I am told to do it, thinking is not required, though he openly admits a lot of what he does seems silly or useless.

A few times TSA colleagues of his have said oh we do this for X reason, mind you not a reason that they were officially given, but a reason that the individual TSA employee's brain came up with to explain why they are doing X as they were never given any specific reason other than most times what they are told which is for the safety of aviation. He said, in many cases he is sure that the "invented" reason is more Tom Clancy than the actual reason why they are doing X, but that without an official explanation people's minds run wild. Following along, if you have "invented" a more Tom Clancy reason that could be understood to be seemingly more important than why any given task is actually assigned, than that person could easily believe that they are next great savior of the USA and thus take on Super Trooper.

If a more specific reason is provided for why TSA does one thing or another, he has said that the specific reason is made public rather than just internally because TSA is just as suspect of its front line people as it is of the general public at large.

My take, people are people and be it TSA or any other employer it is about how management handles its people and the tone they set, if the tone is one of mistrust and disrespect, than the Front Line will portray that, if the tone is trust and respect than the Front Line will echo that.

kmersh, I don't disagree with your overall assessment of TSA.

The problem is that travelers have no recourse, no one to turn to, no way to know what is right or wrong, when at a TSA checkpoint.

Travelers have a right to know what is or may be done to them and in what manner that action might take. Travelers also have a right to redress wrongs against them but with TSA there is no one immediately available to turn to, especially someone not directly connected to TSA employees at the checkpoint.

This is something that I've been saying for years: it all comes down from the top. Pistole was an arrogant SOB who defied Congress and even lied to Congress. Would you expect better behavior from his underlings?

Hopefully, Neffenger isn't as arrogant as Pistole was and a "kinder, gentler" TSA will emerge, but I don't hold out too much hope.

Again, I completely agree, but the same could be said for any large bureaucracy. I am going in circles with the cable company and beyond going to the local telco which is not any better, I am stuck dealing with my cable company with very little recourse.

I am by no means comparing the levels of bad, obviously TSA can effect my life more than the cable companies billing department, but it is similar in the lack of recourse.

I am a huge proponent of Costco because the customer can make their voice heard, I once had an issue with Costco that the local warehouse was unwilling to fix (not the norm for Costco where the moto is find a way to say yes), so I emailed their CEO and most avid spokesperson Jim Sinegal and he got back to me personally and made it right and to this day I am still impressed by that, but Costco is special in that they treat everyone, be it employees and customers as they matter, they are not simply a means to an end.

TSA is not unlike many other large bureaucracies, nobody matters and nobody is empowered with whom the average user (passenger in the TSA's case) can contact.

Government Organs are notoriously slow and hard to change, but one thing is for sure it starts at the top. You can pretty much substitute any Government Organ in place of TSA and the same thing could be said, the average person has little to no recourse and little to no place to turn for help and the few outlets for help are pretty much useless.

In a greater picture that sort of sums up life (at least in the USA) in 2015, the average person just does mean all that much.

They also make TSA "approved" ID.:D

Now that is awesome!

'Merica!

I greet everyone with innocuous phrases, "hello, how are you" or something along those lines. If the passenger responds in a similar fashion, and begins or seems receptive to small talk, I continue - if not, they go about their business. I can't speak for anyone else, but none of you are ever going to be forced to respond to personal chat for anything with me. If you do not wish to engage, that is entirely your right, and have a nice life. Of course, based upon stories here, YMMV.

The way the machine is currently deployed, you would not be facing the operator of the machine, so based simply upon physical positioning, you would indeed be flipping off an inanimate object.

Tangentially:

I have read a few of your posts and you seem to be a down to earth person and I respect that.

Some of your fellow colleagues are just not the same way, for whatever reasons I am not in their life to know what is going on and why they act the way they act.

Case in point, I was going to pick-up my wife at the airport, got out of my car and a Police Officer and two TSA Employees rolled a cart up to my car and said that they are going to run a test on my car. I said fine, whatever, test it, heck wash it, it is fairly dirty and in need of a wash anyway, the Police Officer cracked a smile but TSA Employee #1, said, " SIR SECURITY IS NOT A LAUGHING MATTER, YOU CAR COULD HAVE EXPLOSIVES IN IT" I didn't want to respond to such stupidity, I had just gotten off shift at the hospital, was tired and in no mood to deal, so I just ignored him. My phone rang and it was colleague wanting to have a quick differential diagnosis, so I talked with him while he swabbed different parts of my car.

I hung up and TSA Employee #1 said to, "SIR WHO WERE YOU TALKING TO, AND WHY WERE YOU USING WORDS LIKE DIA--something or other (He overheard me say diaphoretic)? I just did not respond because I do not feel that I have to talk to anyone especially about who I am talking with on the phone.

I started to just walk off and he yelled, stop him I want to talk to him. The Officer said are we done here to TSA #1 and he beguilingly must have (I was far enough away that I didn't hear what he said at that point) said yes, as when I got back my car was still there minus any tickets or other official government documents. Clearly TSA #1 felt that I had to talk to him, I am guessing the Police Officer did not as he did not stop me.

My point, I am sure that you are a respectable, honest, level headed person, doing a job to the best of your abilities, but not everyone of your colleagues is, we are human beings and that means as part of our nature that we are not perfect.

https://twitter.com/CriminelleLaw/st...49766214660096

Some animate object saw the salute.

If I choose not to engage with a Starbuck's barista, that is indeed my right and I am free to exercise it without fear of retaliation.

If I choose not to engage with a TSO, I risk retaliatory treatment for exercising my 'right'.

I'm guessing it was the line-minder before the machine or the pat-down guy/gal in the exit chute, and that there were also probably some words exchanged. Even so, I can't imagine what potential danger could have come from that. Perhaps it was a signal to detonate! Maybe it caused consternation! Maybe somebody saw something and, as is recommended, said something! Oy.

Regardless of peoples' feelings about the TSA, it's never a good idea to attempt to make jokes when you are (or appear to be) in a position of authority, no matter how innocuous the humor attempt is meant to be. People tend to take an authority figure's statements at face-value, and people who don't speak the local language natively often have an extremely difficult time interpreting humor based on sarcasm, irony, puns, or double entendre.

Just as an example - I was on a US flight yesterday. There was a married couple near me, but they were in different rows in the cabin. The cabin FA thoughtfully worked to get them seated together. She asked another pax if the pax would be willing to switch so the couple could sit together, and jokingly added, "...unless they've been married so long they'd prefer to sit apart!"

The other pax agreed, the couple was reseated in the row directly behind me, and I overheard them talking about how rude the FA was for making that "horrible remark," despite what she'd done for them. They didn't perceive it as a joke at all, and their perception of her rudeness completely erased the effect of the good deed.

So, it's easy to see why being a "light-hearted" TSA staffer isn't a good idea.

Thought you BDO types chatted people up in order to determine their innocence. What happens when the perp doesn't feel like playing silly TSA games?

True, and as your example with the FA indicates, it doesn't have to be a position of very much authority.

I recently volunteered at a charity sports event, staffing a booth selling event-branded t-shirts, water bottles and the like. Not a position I would have considered to hold much authority. :p Despite the sign: "Water bottle $3" in large font in front of the bottles, people kept asking how much the water bottles cost. It was pretty quiet and I was kinda bored, so I started saying "They're $3 each but we have a special price of three for $10." Most people laughed, but one guy (native English speaker) paused and then said "Oh, well, then I'll take three." I quickly said that three would be $9 and there wasn't a discount compared to just buying one bottle, but he was clearly confused by it all. He bought two bottles, and I stopped making jokes. :o

Seems more to be an issue with numeracy.

You quickly accrue points on the SPOTNik checklist:

(+1) Avoids eye contact with security personnel or LEO
(+2) Cold penetrating stare
(+2) Displays arrogance and verbally expresses contempt for the screening process
(+3) Does not respond to authoritative commands

As someone once said here, "You're here to infringe my Fourth Amendment rights, not my First Amendment ones."

Also, I don't think it's charitable to use the phrasing "inanimate objects." Only some TSOs would qualify.

Clerk West, did Stacey Armato have a right to present herself at the checkpoint and show the TSA clerks the rules regarding breast milk without being locked in a cage and ignored until she was forced to miss her flight? Did she have a right to present herself at the checkpoint on a later occasion without being harassed until the TSA employee assigned to shadow her identified herself and demanded that the checkpoint clerks do their jobs?

Did Roger Vanderklok have a right to pass through the checkpoint without having a TSA clerk file a false police report against him and then commit perjury at his trial?

Did the rights of these passengers protect them from abuse by TSA clerks? Were any of the TSA clerks who abused these passengers fired?

TSA considers all travelers to be potential terrorist. I don't see the harm in considering all of them to be inanimate until proven otherwise.

Oh, you mean like TSA employees who can't tell the difference between ounces used to measure mass and ounces used to measure volume?

Or TSA employees who can't seem to distinguish between "3 oz", "3.0 oz", "3.4 oz", and "100 ml"?

Regrettably, there's no lack of innumeracy among us. As I tell my students, there are three types of people: those who can count and those who can't.

(wait for it ...)

Wow, this resembles a typical transit through the "checkpoint".

My experience is that, if I assume the guy I'm dealing with is pretty much like me (a guy who wants to be a nice guy and get through the day with minimal hassles), and treat the guy well and respectfully, things go well. If I assume the guy to have a priority in scamming me, hassling me, demonstrating his "superiority" or otherwise being a d*ck, then things go south.

I've had excellent dealings with TSA, having flown on numerous occasions. Think about that for a minute, then do as you please.