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-   -   Regularly Visiting US To Visit Partner- CPB issues? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1709470-regularly-visiting-us-visit-partner-cpb-issues.html)

malioil Sep 12, 2015 3:19 am

Regularly Visiting US To Visit Partner- CPB issues?
 
Hi. I realise the post below is somewhat detailed but this has been a source of considerable anxiety and I would be very appreciative if you took the time to read.

I am a male in my early 20s. Earlier this year my partner, who lives with me in the UK, got very ill and as a result it was decided that she best seek treatment in the US near her home and family. She is a US citizen.

I am a Bahraini citizen, in possession of a valid B1/B2 visa currently resident in the UK (but spending a very substantial amount of time in Bahrain). I am a student at a major British university, in my last year of my undergraduate course (and unofficially I hold a major role in our family business).

Since my partner left for the US, until she is well enough to return (probably January), I am planning on regularly travelling between Scotland and the US. I have already visited for 25 days recently, when the CPB officer just asked 'business or holiday?' to which I answered 'holiday' and was admitted. That was the entire conversation we had. I am slightly anxious given I am aware of the red flag that visiting your girlfriend can have- and I do not know if turning up at the same airport a month and a bit since my last visit would also be a red flag(?)

I have arranged with my university to facilitate a schedule that allows me to do this, and have a 23 day visit planned in October, which is what I am concerned about.

My plan for my time in the US is as follows: we will be spending 1 week at their vacation home in Maine, going horseriding, dining out, hiking, etcetera. We have a weekend planned in New York City, and we will also be visiting a friend of mine in Atlanta. The lion's share of the time will be spent, however, in my partner's family home (this is the address I plan to give CBP... bad idea?).

I can very easily obtain documents from my university that I am an enrolled student, I have just paid one year's rent upfront, and my father owns a major business in Bahrain... I have no reason to stay in the US, and if I ever wished to permanently move there I can legally obtain the correct documents without much hassle, and I would not dream of entering a country illegally or without obtaining the proper visa for the purposes of my visit first.

My only worry is what do I say to CPB if they ask more detailed questions, without putting myself at a disadvantage. I think it is very sad that I have to even consider all the above, given that I am just a man looking to do something perfectly legal, leave on time while spending a substantial amount of money in the US benefiting businesses, etcetera, but it is what it is.

For the record my passport is full of stamps and I hold valid visas for most major Western countries. Last time I felt a bit more comfortable as I was flying in paid F return, which I thought would hold up more if asked for a return ticket than my upcoming flight in Y.

I will not have a tremendous amount of cash on my person but do have multiple cards that can more than cover my expenses in the US.

Any advise would be deeply appreciated- this is making me a bit sleepless as I cannot afford to be disallowed entry into the US, and being put in such a situation would be disastrous!

Xyzzy Sep 13, 2015 12:33 am

Most important is that you should n:ot lie if they ask you questions. I'd perhaps bring copies of your lease -- plus payment receipts -- and other documentation showing ties outside the US just in case they ask.

jphripjah Sep 13, 2015 12:08 pm

Good advice from Xyzzy

GUWonder Sep 13, 2015 2:28 pm

Don't get caught telling a lie, and it will likely work out just fine. There is no reason to bring up family business ties, unless somehow they ask how you are paying for the trip.

With a roundtrip ticket showing departure after a 23 day stay and mentioning holiday, the odds of having an issue are slim, especially if flying into JFK/EWR.

malioil Sep 13, 2015 4:58 pm

Thanks for the information guys. I have been put under the impression that if they catch wind that I am visiting my partner they would give me a lot of trouble.

Is there going to be any issue due to the fact that I recently spent 3 weeks in the US and am returning after only 5 weeks overseas?

GUWonder Sep 14, 2015 12:58 am


Originally Posted by malioil (Post 25420036)
Thanks for the information guys. I have been put under the impression that if they catch wind that I am visiting my partner they would give me a lot of trouble.

Is there going to be any issue due to the fact that I recently spent 3 weeks in the US and am returning after only 5 weeks overseas?

If vacation from school and/or the family business allowed time off in such a way, it shouldn't be a problem if it's clear when/how/why you are going to have to leave on time and have no reason to violate the terms of your visa.

MaxBuck Sep 14, 2015 6:08 am

I'm not an expert by any means, but would it pose a problem to say you're visiting a sick relative? Or a sick friend? (Either of these terms is defensible, it seems to me.)

GUWonder Sep 14, 2015 6:29 am


Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 25422026)
I'm not an expert by any means, but would it pose a problem to say you're visiting a sick relative? Or a sick friend? (Either of these terms is defensible, it seems to me.)

Saying a sick relative is not what I would do. Saying a sick friend is also not what I would do. I would just keep it as vacation. If questions arise about place of stay, then mentioning the UK partner's family and various places booked for the stay would be what I would do. That is if I were not a US citizen/national or resident.

For longer duration sick relative stays, they may start thinking "home care worker", highly improbable as that is in a situation like this.

MaxBuck Sep 14, 2015 12:57 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25422098)
Saying a sick relative is not what I would do. Saying a sick friend is also not what I would do.

And why is that?

It seems to me as though "vacation" isn't really what the described travel is. If one is concerned about being truthful, wouldn't using that term potentially be problematic?

N1120A Sep 14, 2015 1:03 pm

A trip that is not for business is one for leisure. That includes a VFR trip. I think saying holiday or visiting a friend is a perfectly acceptable description. In fact, they really don't have a right to ask about your friend's medical condition.

GUWonder Sep 14, 2015 1:30 pm


Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 25424200)
And why is that?

It seems to me as though "vacation" isn't really what the described travel is. If one is concerned about being truthful, wouldn't using that term potentially be problematic?

VFR travel is vacation travel for most of us.

Claiming to visit a sick person to stay with for a relatively long period of time and/or to stay with recurring frequency? That may bring up issues of possibly having a rather compelling reason not to leave on time and/or perhaps even take up home care worker roles.

Section 107 Sep 14, 2015 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25424370)
VFR travel is vacation travel for most of us.

Claiming to visit a sick person to stay with for a relatively long period of time and/or to stay with recurring frequency? That may bring up issues of possibly having a rather compelling reason not to leave on time and/or perhaps even take up home care worker roles.

The reason one must be careful in what one says at the border is that regardless of what visa or other permission one has received prior to travelling to the country, the immigration officer must make a determination of the traveler's intent for entering the country. Hence the variety of questions. If the officer believes the intent is other than what was proclaimed in obtaining the visa then the officer may deny entry.

Claiming to be a tourist but giving information that can be interpreted as a reason for conducting business or possibly a compelling reason to overstay is reason to deny entry.

Don't be evasive but don't give more information than is required while at the same time be truthful/accurate.

jphripjah Sep 14, 2015 4:06 pm


Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 25424236)
In fact, they really don't have a right to ask about your friend's medical condition.

They have a right to ask absolutely anything they want to that has any bearing on why a visitor is seeking to enter the US. He could refuse to answer. They could then refuse to admit him if they are not satisfied that he is a bona fide visitor entering the country for the reasons he stated. But there's no HIPAA restriction or particular prohibition on them asking about health care issues.

If a visitor tells CBP "The purpose of my trip to the U.S. is to have surgery at the Cleveland Clinic," it's perfectly reasonable for them to ask what kind of surgery. And if the visitor says "I'm having a mole removed from my back" that would set off red flags and invite further questions because it's not the type of surgery that someone would normally fly across the world to have performed.

N1120A Sep 14, 2015 10:22 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 25425165)
They have a right to ask absolutely anything they want to that has any bearing on why a visitor is seeking to enter the US. He could refuse to answer. They could then refuse to admit him if they are not satisfied that he is a bona fide visitor entering the country for the reasons he stated. But there's no HIPAA restriction or particular prohibition on them asking about health care issues.

If a visitor tells CBP "The purpose of my trip to the U.S. is to have surgery at the Cleveland Clinic," it's perfectly reasonable for them to ask what kind of surgery. And if the visitor says "I'm having a mole removed from my back" that would set off red flags and invite further questions because it's not the type of surgery that someone would normally fly across the world to have performed.

I'm not talking about someone's own medical condition. I'm talking about, as is in this case, the medical condition of a third party - a third party that also happens to be a US citizen. That is a HIPAA violation.

FliesWay2Much Sep 14, 2015 11:19 pm


Originally Posted by Section 107 (Post 25424942)
Don't be evasive but don't give more information than is required while at the same time be truthful/accurate.

In other words, don't answer the question that wasn't asked.

GUWonder Sep 15, 2015 1:48 am


Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 25426702)
I'm not talking about someone's own medical condition. I'm talking about, as is in this case, the medical condition of a third party - a third party that also happens to be a US citizen. That is a HIPAA violation.

HIPAA violations are applicable when covered parties are dealing/communicating in covered information. Whether or not a violation has taken place depends on whether or not the parties dealing/communicating information are regulated parties under that act.

jphripjah Sep 15, 2015 7:52 am


Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 25426702)
That is a HIPAA violation.

No, it's not. There's a misconception that any time anyone asks about someone else's health information, or talks about someone else's health information, it's a "HIPAA violation." This is untrue - HIPAA violations occur when health care providers and insurance companies and their employees disclose private health information.

Let's say a 19 year old girl, American or foreign, flies into Phoenix from Latin America following a two day trip to America. CBP officer asks "What's the purpose of your trip to Phoenix?" She says, "Visiting a sick friend in the hospital."

CBP can then certainly ask a bunch of follow up questions like "What's your friend's name?" "What illness does he have?" "Where is he being treated?" "How long has he been sick?" etc. for the purpose of determining whether the traveler is telling the truth.

If the traveler is a U.S. citizen she doesn't have to answer any questions of course and is still admissable.

GUWonder Sep 15, 2015 1:53 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 25428124)
No, it's not.

While my guess would be that it's not, there is a very small chance it may be. To know for certain depends on factors which haven't been made explicit in this thread.

There are somethings which could be asked by CBP that could get CBP in trouble. Does it mean that CBP has a right to ask that too? The proverbial devil is in the details.

Boggie Dog Sep 15, 2015 6:38 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25430011)
While my guess would be that it's not, there is a very small chance it may be. To know for certain depends on factors which haven't been made explicit in this thread.

There are somethings which could be asked by CBP that could get CBP in trouble. Does it mean that CBP has a right to ask that too? The proverbial devil is in the details.

What things?

cestmoi123 Sep 15, 2015 7:26 pm

While I could certainly see a scenario where it would be a HIPAA violation for a pax to _answer_ CBP's questions (i.e. a surgeon coming to the US to perform a surgery with colleagues, and getting asked patient's name, nature of illness, etc. etc.), it's not a HIPAA violation to _ask_ those questions. Since I'm not a party covered by the rules, I'm totally free to call up any doctor and ask her to send me complete copies of all her patients' records. If she sends them, she's violated HIPAA, but I've done nothing illegal.

Pup7 Sep 18, 2015 6:41 am


Originally Posted by cestmoi123 (Post 25431548)
While I could certainly see a scenario where it would be a HIPAA violation for a pax to _answer_ CBP's questions (i.e. a surgeon coming to the US to perform a surgery with colleagues, and getting asked patient's name, nature of illness, etc. etc.), it's not a HIPAA violation to _ask_ those questions. Since I'm not a party covered by the rules, I'm totally free to call up any doctor and ask her to send me complete copies of all her patients' records. If she sends them, she's violated HIPAA, but I've done nothing illegal.

^^^^ Yep.

Blogndog Sep 18, 2015 6:58 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 25425165)
They have a right to ask absolutely anything they want to that has any bearing on why a visitor is seeking to enter the US. He could refuse to answer. They could then refuse to admit him if they are not satisfied that he is a bona fide visitor entering the country for the reasons he stated. But there's no HIPAA restriction or particular prohibition on them asking about health care issues.

If a visitor tells CBP "The purpose of my trip to the U.S. is to have surgery at the Cleveland Clinic," it's perfectly reasonable for them to ask what kind of surgery. And if the visitor says "I'm having a mole removed from my back" that would set off red flags and invite further questions because it's not the type of surgery that someone would normally fly across the world to have performed.

I almost never give them details -- certainly I wouldn't share medical info with them. Normally I just refuse to answer but I recently blew up at a CBP officer who was trying to insist I had to tell him whether the purpose of my trip was "business or pleasure".
"neither" I said
"are you here on business?"
"no"
"then you're on vacation"
"no"
"well it must be one or the other"
"no"
"then why are you here?"
"that's none of your business"
"i need to know the purpose of your travel"
"i'm HERE to see my Dad BEFORE he ****ing pasess away and that is NOT ANYTHING the US government is entitled to know about, NO it's not "business" and it's not "pleasure", and it's none of your concern -- now are you going to stop with the questions or am I still going to be standing here arguing with you when my Dad passes?"

The only thing these bozos understand is being shouted at.

jphripjah Sep 18, 2015 10:48 pm

If you're a US citizen you don't have to give them any details about anything. They still have to admit you. If you're a visitor and they ask for details, even about someone's health issues that relate to your visit, then if you refuse to answer they might not let you in.

GUWonder Sep 19, 2015 1:51 am


Originally Posted by Blogndog (Post 25447095)
I almost never give them details -- certainly I wouldn't share medical info with them. Normally I just refuse to answer but I recently blew up at a CBP officer who was trying to insist I had to tell him whether the purpose of my trip was "business or pleasure".
"neither" I said
"are you here on business?"
"no"
"then you're on vacation"
"no"
"well it must be one or the other"
"no"
"then why are you here?"
"that's none of your business"
"i need to know the purpose of your travel"
"i'm HERE to see my Dad BEFORE he ****ing pasess away and that is NOT ANYTHING the US government is entitled to know about, NO it's not "business" and it's not "pleasure", and it's none of your concern -- now are you going to stop with the questions or am I still going to be standing here arguing with you when my Dad passes?"

The only thing these bozos understand is being shouted at.

The real bozos are the ones who tasked them with doing so much that they have no choice but to ask questions like this. If they would completely segregate the immigration control function from the customs control function, it may help make return/entry into the US a much improved experience. But due to a combining of roles and the nature of customs duties applicability being conditioned in part upon type of trip, this kind of stuff happens. Add in a mega-doze of being groomed to be paranoid, and "Voila!" we have what we have, this mess.

oliver2002 Sep 21, 2015 5:29 am

The biggest problem the OP will face is to convince the CBP officer he is entering the country with non-immigrant intent. College about to finish, only a years lease left, home not really in the UK, partner now sick and back home in the US. The key will be to make a case that this is just a short visit. And not to get married and go illegal till the green card is thru.

That said, I would advise to just say how it is. There more relaxed you are about it and say the truth, the more it is likely they will just wave you thru.

If you repeat a certain few sentences religiously and tensely, the more they will think you have a longer story to tell...@:-)

GUWonder Sep 21, 2015 12:33 pm


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 25456202)
The biggest problem the OP will face is to convince the CBP officer he is entering the country with non-immigrant intent. College about to finish, only a years lease left, home not really in the UK, partner now sick and back home in the US.

A year's lease (left), a school program to return to (in order to finish), deep business and family ties outside of the US, and a partner likely to return to the UK around this January? These are all pretty strong indicators of low probability of having intent to immigrate to the US.

jphripjah Sep 21, 2015 9:54 pm

^Plus he has previously visited the US and left.


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