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-   -   Body scanners at CPH (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1700811-body-scanners-cph.html)

chrismo2 Aug 7, 2015 5:08 am

Body scanners at CPH
 
Body scanners will be deployed at Copenhagen from 1 September according to this article (in Danish) http://ing.dk/artikel/scannere-med-m...ufthavn-177817 (Microwave scanners to replace pat-downs at Copenhagen Airport)

CPH airport has purchased 24 scanners.

The scanners will only be used for secondary screenings instead of pat-downs in case the WTMD goes off. All passenger will therefore still have to go through the WTMD.

CPH spokesman says that it has been decided to introduce body scanners because EU rules from 1 September mandate a much more intrusive pat-down of passengers if they are selected for secondary screening. CPH finds the alternative with body scanners less intrusive. The scanners will not show real body pictures of passengers to the screeners, only "stick drawings". No mentioning of the possibility to op out.

GUWonder Aug 7, 2015 5:34 am

Thanks for bringing this up here.

Their discussion has included using them to screen a a substantial portion of people who don't even have enough metal to alarm the WTMD at CPH as currently set when it comes to alarming on metal level.

They really are trying to copy more and more from the TSA in the US; and as a frequent CPH user, I find this transition unfortunate as it will slow things down for me.

Johnnie Muller is either a liar or a dunce. Contrary to his indication, the body scanners won't result in the elimination of all pat-downs for WTMD alarming individuals. Rather the various involved governmental and private sector bodies have noted that pat-downs are going to be needed to deal with strip-search machine alarms too.

chrismo2 Aug 7, 2015 6:28 am

Well, I don't know what's best, pat-down or scanning, if the scanner's software don't show nude images of people as stated, I think I would prefer the scanner. Obviously it doesn't guarantee that you don't get a pat down as well, but I believe that in most cases the metal object can be identified as unharmful directly on the scanner and you are free to go (e.g. a zipper, metal button wristwatch etc.). You should have the option to opt out of the scanner and get the full treatment as well, according to EU rules here: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release....htm?locale=en

BTW WTMDs in CPH are set to also alarm randomly even if no metal is detected, probably this is the case in most other airports as well. Sometimes the screener even tells you that you were selected randomly for pat down (mostly if the passenger look confused and say "but I have absolutely no metal on me when the WTMD beeps.")

GUWonder Aug 7, 2015 6:38 am

The strip search machine scanners take longer to screen a person than the WTMD. This will slow things down for passengers in the aggregate, even those passengers not subject to the strip search machines. The process-driven delays from strip search machines are known, but being tolerated by the relevant decision-making governmental and corporate bodies.

Given the WTMDs can be set to "random" alarm regardless of metal quantity, this means that a proportion of all passengers are de facto being selected to have the strip search machines screen them as part of primary screening.

The talk of this being just for "secondary searches" for passengers is really Orwellian double speak from the involved parties, particularly as a certain minimum percentage of all passengers at CPH are being targeted to be sent to the slow, strip search machine scanning regardless of what is on their person when walking into the WTMD.

The scanner software won't show the average screener at the airport a person's naked image, but the image of the naked body of a passenger is probably what is being used by the software to search for anomalies on persons screened. How often the naked image of passengers is captured for review by a real person is an open question, one for which there will be no honest and accurate answer from governments.

Boggie Dog Aug 7, 2015 7:31 am

Start with two frogs in a pot of cold water. Start a fire and slowly raise the temperature of the water in the pot......

GUWonder Aug 7, 2015 7:46 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 25235340)
Start with two frogs in a pot of cold water. Start a fire and slowly raise the temperature of the water in the pot......

Indeed. Taking lessons from the USG/TSA.

mfkne Aug 7, 2015 7:51 am

So now you could throw the random alarm on the WTMD and the overzealous body scanner throwing one of their favourite false positives and get a pat-down after all. I guess they call it efficiency.

By the way, does anyone have a reference of these stricter EU requirements cited as being in effect from September 1?
Edit: It seems that this document mentions changes to go into effect in September 2015, but they are not spelled out and I am unable to find the relevant amendment to EC 300/2008: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...ex:52014DC0399. I have reached out to the Europe Direct service to point me to the relevant amendment.

N830MH Aug 8, 2015 12:39 pm

Body scanners at CPH
 
Oh, boy! I don't think you can get through the scanners. They will not like that. You can say I opt-out.

cdn1 Aug 8, 2015 1:03 pm

The Europeans finally doing what the Americans want them to do.
Buying the american machines and use them on their own people.
Seems europeans are ready to give up their liberties and join the sheeple in the "anything for security theatre" group

Xyzzy Aug 9, 2015 8:53 am

Will one be able to :eek:pt out of the CPH secondary scanners or will doing so cause a much more intrusive by-hand patdown/strip search?

mfkne Aug 9, 2015 9:03 am


Originally Posted by Xyzzy (Post 25243458)
Will one be able to :eek:pt out of the CPH secondary scanners or will doing so cause a much more intrusive by-hand patdown/strip search?

You can always opt-out of the body scanners. You will get a patdown instead.

GUWonder Aug 9, 2015 9:28 am


Originally Posted by Xyzzy (Post 25243458)
Will one be able to :eek:pt out of the CPH secondary scanners or will doing so cause a much more intrusive by-hand patdown/strip search?

Opt-out of the strip search machine scan will be allowed, but the result will be a more intrusive pat-down.

tanja Aug 9, 2015 4:47 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25243587)
Opt-out of the strip search machine scan will be allowed, but the result will be a more intrusive pat-down.

This is my airport so this is crap. But I hope I can ask for a female ?

GUWonder Aug 9, 2015 4:55 pm


Originally Posted by tanja (Post 25245281)
This is my airport so this is crap. But I hope I can ask for a female ?

You can, but you may happen to have to wait a bit longer for a same-sex screener; and it also may mean that other passengers have to wait behind you in line longer as a result of opting out and/or wanting a same-sex screener.

At CPH, women seem to end up more frequently selected for pat-downs than men when it comes to the primary screening checkpoint. And so while it's frequently the case that each WTMD fed by two x-ray luggage scanning belt lines is assigned one male and one female pat-down artist, it's a daily routine for a substantial minority of patted-down passengers at CPH to be rubbed down by a screener of a different sex than the patted-down passenger; and if they insist on a same-sex pat-down, it may mean waiting a bit more than someone who doesn't care.

Section 107 Aug 10, 2015 7:44 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25245305)
You can, but you may happen to have to wait a bit longer for a same-sex screener; and it also may mean that other passengers have to wait behind you in line longer as a result of opting out and/or wanting a same-sex screener.

At CPH, women seem to end up more frequently selected for pat-downs than men when it comes to the primary screening checkpoint. And so while it's frequently the case that each WTMD fed by two x-ray luggage scanning belt lines is assigned one male and one female pat-down artist, it's a daily routine for a substantial minority of patted-down passengers at CPH to be rubbed down by a screener of a different sex than the patted-down passenger; and if they insist on a same-sex pat-down, it may mean waiting a bit more than someone who doesn't care.

Wait, you can request an opposite sex screener? Man, I love the Scandinavians - what a wonderful world!


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