Problems of crossing into the US for former citizens?
 

So I am thinking of giving up my US citizenship. It's a complicated decision with a lot of trade-offs and I really don't want to get into the details here since it can quickly devolve the conversation. What I am specifically wondering though is if anyone knows if there are any problems with entering the US as a former US citizen? Would I just be treated like any other ESTA traveller or subject to additional scrutiny? Hoping someone has some sort of experience as a data point in my decision making.

It would be a relinquishment of citizenship and not a renunciation so my name wouldn't go on the list if that matters.

This is a very timely question for a growing number of US dual-citizens and those in a position to be dual-citizens -- as many such persons resident beyond the US are getting into family/spousal conflicts and/or are being denied service because of things such at FATCA compliance or other US Treasury/IRS-related hassles (even when the IRS/US Treasury has been paid in full for the person's entire history of being subject to IRS/Treasury rules).

As a matter of practice for travel to/from the US, the outcomes in part depend on whether or not the person is born in the US. When it comes to VWP country citizens who were former U.S. citizens who happened to acquire US citizenship as a result of conditions applicable to them at their birth outside of the US, I've seen such persons apply for an ESTA and get in and out of the US under the VWP without any extraordinary peep from CBP. However, if place of birth is in the US, the chances of hassles during the trip and on US arrivals (and sometimes even US departures) skyrocket -- much the same goes also for those who were never US citizens but happened to be born in the US.

Can you expand on this? What sort of hassles? Technically the law here requires I renounce my US citizenship, though it is generally unenforced so I could have that to fall back on as an answer. I was personally born in Virginia, so it would be an issue.

Just out of curiosity, are there any other cases other than children of diplomats where someone born in the US is not a citizen?

Airline reps or contractors might see the US place of birth and insist that you have a US passport or badger you on why you don't for the trip.

CBP has made stinks about such situations too -- anything from "you still need a US passport" rants to "why would you give up this up" suspicions/paranoia that result in secondary examinations that eat up a lot of time.

Other than diplomats, the only other category would be if a child were born in the US to a parent representing a foreign military powers of some sort in a hostile action in US territory over which the U.S. had no control at the time of the birth. Can't recall a single such US instance for a non-diplomat's child, at least not in my lifetime or that of anyone I've known to work at State since the UN came into being.

Probably not looking for this, but we still have US-born nationals who are not US citizens; now mostly -- if not, by now, just exclusively -- those of American Samoan heritage. For them we have US passports that are for non-citizen US nationals. This can be tricky sometimes as in if the non-citizen US national applies for participation in a program that requires US citizenship rather than merely US nationality. [US citizenship is, quite obviously, a very large subset of US nationality.]

@LupineChemist: To clarify, are you intending to become stateless, or to take a different citizenship (if yes, which) and simultaneously relinquish your US citizenship?

If you're stateless, there are all kinds of problems you'll be running into. If you just change your citizenship to a country with which the US is on relatively good terms, I don't see why there'd be a problem.

I would be relinquishing upon acquisition of Spanish citizenship. Mostly because it's free if you do it upon getting a new passport.

I'm curious. What is the difference between relinquishing your US citizenship and renouncing it, in the eyes of the US government?

I ask because I, too, am considering renouncing my US citizenship once I get Cypriot citizenship (a few years down the road).

What is free? Relinquishing US citizenship? Please elaborate and cite the appropriate state dept. rules. Thanks

The scenario: You're a native-born US citizen who gives up your citizenship for whatever reason. You then want to come back to the US on your foreign passport. Why would ICE hassle you?

Answer: Because you could very easily end up staying. A lot of people want to renounce their citizenship so they don't have to pay US income tax. But, they don't really want to leave the US, they just don't want to pay taxes. So you renounce your citizenship, hand in your US passport, leave the country, come back in, and never leave. You're now a super illegal alien. No one would suspect that you're not a citizen, and if you're of the self-employed sort, no one would ever be the wiser.

It s:)unds to me that in this case when the OP acquires Spanish citizenship he's required by Spain to relinquish/renounce his us citizenship. Despite anything he may do or say to Spain at the time that won't satisfy the US government who will still consider him a US citizen. Renouncing US citizenship is not very easy and is rather expensive.

From the US State Dept. (linked above):
I have no idea what this means with regard to Spain.

I think you are way, way oversimplifying this. People who renounce are generally not tax cheats, they are often tired of being caught up in a bureaucratic mess with ever draconian fines for minor oversights. The most likely people to renounce have been living overseas, often with family ties overseas, for a long long time and have little if any connection to the USA. If the USA didn't impose an onerous burden on them they would problaby not give up their citizenship but the USA chooses to be unduly harsh in their treatment of expats so many are forced to give up their citizenship. It's a shame that our government treats people who live overseas as potential criminals rather than potential ambassadors.

Yes, basically if you notify the consulate prior to getting your new citizenship it counts as an expatriating act according to the law. Relinquishing is any way you become no longer a US citizen. Renouncement is only a specific way to relinquish and is the one with the fees.

Here it is is from the horse's mouth:
http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...tionality.html

When you renounce your citizenship, you get a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. You should carry it with you to prove that you are not a US citizen when traveling in the US, because without it, anyone whose foreign passport lists the US as place of birth is assumed to be a citizen.

I seriously doubt most acts of giving up US citizenship are done to avoid paying taxes while still wanting to live in the US. Most attempts to give up US citizenship seem to be done to avoid future headaches with family, business partners, employers, service providers and/or additional paperwork. Those are more common grounds for expatriation than avoiding payment of taxes.

Most adult US citizens abroad don't owe the IRS money, even as they mostly do owe paperwork to the IRS/Treasury.

Renunciation of US citizenship is a different process than relinquishment of US citizenship; and the consequences of each path to losing US citizenship are not all the same -- even as both result in a person becoming a former US citizen.

Many thousands of persons with foreign passports listing the US as place of birth are neither US citizens nor assumed (by the U.S.) to be US citizens.

There are reports of CBP officers assuming that people born in the US must be citizens. You cited one yourself a few posts earlier in this thread.

Just goes to show that the CBP isn't infallible. Keep in mind that these are the same characters who sometimes assume a US passport isn't prima facie evidence of US citizenship (and/or nationality) of the person whose picture is in the valid US passport.

Still, the U.S. doesn't assume that everyone with a foreign passport listing a US place of birth is a US citizen. To that purpose, the US has invested resources to make sure that many such persons are not to be treated by it as US citizens.