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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Greetings from TSA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1587030-greetings-tsa.html)

TSAPressSec Jun 25, 2014 9:54 am

Many, many questions, and I am working to get answers. I have thick skin, and want to assist in answering them. I apologize for the delay, but I was out of the office on personal leave.

With that being said, please be patient. Some of the questions have to be researched, and I want to vet them with the appropriate personnel internally before I post them here.

goalie Jun 25, 2014 10:07 am


Originally Posted by TSAPressSec (Post 23094129)
Many, many questions, and I am working to get answers. I have thick skin, and want to assist in answering them. I apologize for the delay, but I was out of the office on personal leave.

With that being said, please be patient. Some of the questions have to be researched, and I want to vet them with the appropriate personnel internally before I post them here.

Thanks for the update ^ and looking forward to the answers (and if I may, especially being asked to state one's name ;))

chollie Jun 25, 2014 10:46 am


Originally Posted by TSAPressSec (Post 23094129)
Many, many questions, and I am working to get answers. I have thick skin, and want to assist in answering them. I apologize for the delay, but I was out of the office on personal leave.

With that being said, please be patient. Some of the questions have to be researched, and I want to vet them with the appropriate personnel internally before I post them here.

I sympathize with you. You're being confronted with a pent-up backlog of questions that no one has been able to get answered through regular channels (the Blog or the website). In some cases, even our 'good apple' TSO posters have been unable to get definitive answers, and if they can't, we ordinary citizens don't stand a chance.

Your sincere efforts are appreciated.

pontifex Jun 25, 2014 1:21 pm


Originally Posted by TSAPressSec (Post 23072302)
Yes. We are going to expand the use of Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) in TSA Pre✓™ at select checkpoints. However, the vast majority of passengers in TSA Pre✓™ will still be screened via a walk-through metal detector. This will primarily be rolled out at larger airports with more than one TSA Pre✓™ lane.

TSA Pre✓™ eligible passengers, who prefer to be screened via an AIT, will now have the opportunity to do so at these select checkpoints. Many passengers with joint replacements, prosthetics or other medical devices that would regularly alarm when passing through a walk-through metal detector often prefer this technology because it is quicker and less invasive than a pat-down. Unlike standard lanes, passengers will not be required to divest their shoes, light outerwear and/or belt in the AIT.

Previously, if a passenger alarmed when passing through the walk-through metal detector after multiple passes, that passenger would be required to receive a pat-down. Passengers at these select TSA Pre✓™ checkpoints, where available, will now have the option of being screened via AIT, possibly precluding the need for a pat-down.

What makes Pre-Check travelers' belts, etc. compatible to wear into the naked body scanners but not the belts of the unwashed masses who are not in Pre-Check?

Are you using more powerful naked body scanners in Pre-Check lanes? Are the shoes, belts, etc. of Pre-Check passengers somehow less dangerous than the shoes of everyone else? (Leaving aside, for the moment, the fact that no one's shoes are dangerous, and no other country relicates TSA's insane shoe carnival.)

pontifex Jun 25, 2014 1:22 pm


Originally Posted by TSAPressSec (Post 23072505)
I Sometimes a BDO might talk with the pax.

Why do you still have "BDOs", since the entire program is a pathetic farce based on junk science?

joshwex90 Jun 25, 2014 1:36 pm


Originally Posted by pontifex (Post 23095321)
Why do you still have "BDOs", since the entire program is a pathetic farce based on junk science?

While I won't comment on the efficacy of the TSA BDO's, why do you claim it's a "pathetic farce," based on "junk science?" They're highly successful in other realms of security as well as aviation security in other countries, notably Israel

joshwex90 Jun 25, 2014 1:39 pm

I've tried making a wiki, but others - feel free to edit and improve. I thought it made sense to include a link to other posts by Ross but not include every single question he's answered, unless this is meant to be the master thread of all questions. Mods, others - chime in!

Ari Jun 25, 2014 1:57 pm


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23095424)
I've tried making a wiki, but others - feel free to edit and improve. I thought it made sense to include a link to other posts by Ross but not include every single question he's answered, unless this is meant to be the master thread of all questions. Mods, others - chime in!

I think the UA forum has a pretty good system-- a sticky for consolidated UA Insider posts. We could do the same for Ross here. But Ross is a little more interactive than Aaron (taking the time to answer the same question again and again in different threads), so this might be a challenge.

goalie Jun 25, 2014 1:58 pm


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23095401)

Originally Posted by pontifex (Post 23095321)
Why do you still have "BDOs", since the entire program is a pathetic farce based on junk science?

While I won't comment on the efficacy of the TSA BDO's, why do you claim it's a "pathetic farce," based on "junk science?" They're highly successful in other realms of security as well as aviation security in other countries, notably Israel

Agreed as to not being a "pathetic farce" based on "junk science" for the reasons given above but (and using Israel as an example) the one key factor is that the Israelis use extensive (n.b. extensive) training as opposed to the TSA "training" BDO's in a 2-3 week class and with that, a 14-21 day wonder wouldn't know a ter'wrist or other nefarious type person if they walked up and "introduced themselves as such"*

*I could use another expression but I might get myself in trouble ;)

joshwex90 Jun 25, 2014 2:02 pm


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 23095533)
I think the UA forum has a pretty good system-- a sticky for consolidated UA Insider posts. We could do the same for Ross here. But Ross is a little more interactive than Aaron (taking the time to answer the same question again and again in different threads), so this might be a challenge.

That would require mod-action. Fine with me - I just figured with others chiming in, I'd at least try and get the ball rolling.


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 23095534)
Agreed as to not being a "pathetic farce" based on "junk science" for the reasons given above but (and using Israel as an example) the one key factor is that the Israelis use extensive (n.b. extensive) training as opposed to the TSA "training" BDO's in a 2-3 week class and with that, a 14-21 day wonder wouldn't know a ter'wrist or other nefarious type person if they walked up and "introduced themselves as such"*

*I could use another expression but I might get myself in trouble ;)

Agreed 100%. The way the TSA uses the BDO program is a joke. But the idea behind it is very real. And before people claim that the Israeli model can't translate to the USA, BDOs are used in a very wide range of security that isn't just aviation security. Border patrol agents in many countries are trained in body signal detection, and that has helped keep drugs, felons, etc. out of said countries.

Ari Jun 25, 2014 2:08 pm


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 23095534)
Agreed as to not being a "pathetic farce" based on "junk science" for the reasons given above but (and using Israel as an example) the one key factor is that the Israelis use extensive (n.b. extensive) training as opposed to the TSA "training" BDO's in a 2-3 week class and with that, a 14-21 day wonder wouldn't know a ter'wrist or other nefarious type person if they walked up and "introduced themselves as such"*

*I could use another expression but I might get myself in trouble ;)

The Israelis profile things other than just behavior-- things that the US Constitution would prohibit profiling.

joshwex90 Jun 25, 2014 2:12 pm


Originally Posted by Ari (Post 23095581)
The Israelis profile things other than just behavior-- things that the US Constitution would prohibit profiling.

That has nothing to do with the point that behavioral detection isn't a crock. Have the Israelis combined it with other stuff to make it more effective? Yes. Does that mean without those additions, it's worth zero? No.

chollie Jun 25, 2014 2:12 pm


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23095401)
While I won't comment on the efficacy of the TSA BDO's, why do you claim it's a "pathetic farce," based on "junk science?" They're highly successful in other realms of security as well as aviation security in other countries, notably Israel

Cite?

I have never seen any evidence to support this - quite the contrary.

There is no comparison between Israel's practices and TSA's BDOs. None.

joshwex90 Jun 25, 2014 2:15 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 23095609)
Cite?

I have never seen any evidence to support this - quite the contrary.

There is no comparison between Israel's practices and TSA's BDOs. None.

Sure there is. Just because there are differences doesn't change the fact that the behavioral detection aspect of Israeli security enhances security, showing that it's not a crock. If it was a crock, it wouldn't help. Period.

However, I was simply posting in shock to a previous poster. NONE of this has anything to do with the thread

goalie Jun 25, 2014 2:30 pm


Originally Posted by joshwex90 (Post 23095606)

Originally Posted by Ari (Post 23095581)
The Israelis profile things other than just behavior-- things that the US Constitution would prohibit profiling.

That has nothing to do with the point that behavioral detection isn't a crock. Have the Israelis combined it with other stuff to make it more effective? Yes. Does that mean without those additions, it's worth zero? No.

Agreed ^ and agreed ^


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 23095609)
...There is no comparison between Israel's practices and TSA's BDOs. None.

Sure there is-one works and the other doesn't ;)


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