Aggression landing at SFO
 

Hi All

I would like to vent if i may regarding an arrival into San Fransisco from Hong Kong.

My husband and I are both in our late 40's and Australian. I have been to USA 3 times previously and my new husband never. Due to him having a conviction for dope (had a bong and a little for perdonnel use) at the age of 18 we had to get a special visa for him. To get the necessary photos, paperwork, apply, fees etc it was $400 but we thought do the right thing even though nothing shows up on a police clearance as it has been cleared due to 30 years passing.

We landed in SFO and went through immigration no problems. Lady who stamped our passports called over a supervisor who was fine, and told hubbie that his passport was getting full, some information in regards to his one year visa and off we went.

Further down was a guy collecting our customs cards? I was fine to go but hubbie you go over there and pointed. He says i may as well go with him as we are travelling together.

Get called to the counter and the woman goes Passport! No hi no please just barked, so hubby handed over his passport.

Then she starts barking why have you been sent to secondary? Now we both have travelled extensively but have never heard of secondary. Hubbie asks what is secondary? And i am looking up to see if it says customs on the wall but there is nothing i could see. She says dont give me attitude why have you been sent to secondary? Now the only attitude was coming from her. We know to keep mouth shut and be polite as these people can make your life a living hell if they so wish.

I then say to her i dont understand, what is secondary? Her reply was to shut my mouth or she would bounce me straight back out of the country?
She barks at me for my passport but of course with no please or thank you. Rude does not begin to explain this woman.

She has a look at my passport and keeps it on her desk.

We then get barked at why have you been sent here!
By this time i am getting really angry about being treated like a piece of dirt and keep my cool and say the guy who checked our card told us to come here.

Then i get shut your mouth or i am going to bounce you straight back out of the country. Hubbie and i are looking at each other in disbelief.

She then picks up my passport, yells at me while pointing at one of our bags and i am told to get out! I take my passport and bag she told me to take and i am in tears by this stage and leave. While walking out i ask another of the officers how do i put a complaint in about this woman. I ask for her name and he advises he cant give it to me due to privacy. I said a few words to him and stormed out into arrivals and waited.

For 1.5 hours this woman held my hubbie up. He was searched, everything in the bag was searched. Why was he here? Where was he staying and on an on it went.

He finally came out and explained the above and also the woman thought we had been in an office or something.

Never have i ever been so rudely spoken to or made to feel like a criminal or a piece of dirt. By the time hubbie appeared i had been in tears the whole time and my head was pounding as i was so angry. I was so angry i said lets forget it and catch the next plane out. I dont want to be here! Hubbie said no we are visiting friends and to calm down, we are in now.

Had it not been for the fact we were busy visiting friends i would have said fine you bounce me back. If this is how your country treats people i dont wish to be here or spend my money here.

No one deserves to be treated like this when visiting a country. 6 months on it still makes me angry and i am sticking to my guns regarding never visiting the USA again. There are many more places to visit and lucky our friends visit other countries and we will meet them there.

We spoke about our treatment to others while in America and they were very blaise. Sorry but thats how they treat you. We Americans get it as well! No one knew what secondary was either!

The only funny part was the officer told me to take my hubbies bag and i was not about to say another word. My hubbie now is a international, cross dressing drug smuggler lol She had to search my bag lol

My niece is marrying an American and moves there next month and i have already told her i am sorry, i refuse to spend a cent in America and wont be visiting.

I read about all the trouble with the TSA groping, stealing etc from people and i have to say i find it amazing there is not a uproar going on.

I find the people we met friendly, but not enough to make me want to ever go back through that attack ever again.

Caz

"Visit America: It's Easier Than You Think"

http://travel.state.gov/visa/visa_5735.html

Maybe the State Dep't should talk to other gov't agencies before spending money on such campaigns

Some CBP folks are fine. Others, like the one you got, have a real attitude and shouldn't be working in a public-facing situation. I saw one at IAD (that's the closest "international" airport to Washington, DC) thoroughly and totally berate in a loud voice an elderly asian woman who spoke little English. Her mistake? She got in the wrong line to exit Customs. Even told her that if she didn't speak English she should not come to our country.

I had a conversation with my elected officials, but don't know if anything came of it.

The best way to handle it is to ask for a supervisor right then and there. Yes, they may delay you. But there is no reason that anyone trying to visit the US should be subject to abuse.

I strongly encourage you to share your story with as many people as possible. There's no excuse for anyone to be subjected to anything like what was done to you.

The more the world knows about the USA's abhorrent abuse of our guests and citizens, fewer people will visit. Eventually, the paranoid swine "in charge" of "security" will stop harassing guests and citizens when there is widespread rejection and condemnation of these unnecessary practices.

Yeah, it's odd how they often treat people like shite in US Airports.
After all, that adds to frustration, resentment and diminishes the "security"
that they keep obsessing over.
I mean, right?
Who ever thought 911 would evolve into nasty, bitter clerks and ticket
agents?

OP can file a complaint with the DHS Inspector General if she wants. Won't matter. Likely secondary because husband's record contains notations about why he needed special visa review. The mistake here seems to be that the original control Officer should not have sent the wife over to secondary because there was no reason to and the secondary screener couldn't figure out why the wife was there.

The time to assert yourself is not at the FIS. The CBP Officer could have excluded OP for almost any reason or no reason at all.

Aggression landing at SFO
 

I would contact your embassy if you're still here or the foreign affairs office in Canberra. Also, write to your MP and senators. Let Qantas know that you won't be buying trams-Pacific tickets anymore and state the reason.

I can't apologize on behalf of the American People, but I just did.

There is no excuse for the attitude of CBP. None. Even if she were excluded, it could and should have been handled in a better manner.

To me, it's not the matter of a secondary, it's the way the OP was handled.

of course, nobody deserves to be treated rudely, but if I never returned to places where I've had a negative experience, I'd have to just stay home. Rudeness happens everywhere. Reasonable people understand this and try to enjoy their trip anyway. Try not to let the actions of 1 person taint your view of the other 300 million of us. People on the front lines of customs/immigration (of any country) are hardly representative of everyone.

However, many of us do not condone the policies that enable the treatment of guests like the OP.

There are plenty of wonderful, friendly, hassle and harassment-free places on the planet where this kind of nonsense never happens. I'm happy to blacklist places (obviously a little tough to blacklist my own country right now) that engage in such practices and instead go where I and my money are both warmly welcomed entering, while visiting, and upon exit. There's no valid excuse for any other kind of treatment.

Nobody here has condoned or defended the rude behavior. But boycotting an entire country because of one experience makes about as much sense to me as "I once had a cab driver with really bad BO, so I no longer take cabs".

Not at all. We're not talking about private citizens here. We're talking about government functionaries. And this is on top of the hassle and harassment that guests already receive before they even get here: onerous and expensive visa process and being treated like a criminal by immigration.

The United States should be condemned and boycotted by all international visitors.

Bad advice.Good advice.

ICE agents have wide discretionary power, including not calling a supervisor just because you want one. If you're a US citizen, yes you can push back at the risk of wasting a few hours of your time; otherwise you might well find yourself on the first plane back where you came from.

if it was US Gov't policy and practice to treat every visitor (or citizen) as rudely as the OP experienced, you'd have a point. But you have to acknowledge that front line employees don't always live up to the expectations or standards of behavior of the dept 100% of the time. That's not excusing the behavior, it's just a realistic acknowledgement that not everyone is going to get Disneyland-caliber customer service 100% of the time. CBP overreacted with the rude behavior. The OP overreacted (IMO) by boycotting the US based on a single incident.

Could not disagree more. There should be zero tolerance (immediate termination) for CBP who acts in this manner. But the underlying problem is the "security" culture that has infected the USA in the last 11 years that fosters such inexcusable rude and harassing behavior.

Not only should the OP boycott the USA, so should the rest of the planet until the USA gets its act together and stops acting like a nation of sniveling cowards.

I'm all for holding CBP employees accountable for standards of behavior, including termination if necessary. But I think boycotting an entire nation because of a few incidents of rudeness is irrational. Talk about cowards ? People have to boycott a place because they were treated rudely ? I guess I'm not as delicate as most if I can withstand a little rudeness and still get through the day.

I have to say you Americans are bizarre people for this reason.

I know you may feel your country is one of the best in the world but the way you treat your own citizens and visitors is appalling.

I have no desire whatsoever to ever become a US citizen even if it were handed to me on a gold, TSA approved platter.

At one time, this could have been claimed. It is no longer the country it was. Not when you get sexually molested at airports for no reason. Not when the US Treasury is seriously considering minting a coin with a face value of $1 Trillion so they can then borrow against it. It has become a nation run by clowns and idiots and populated mostly by the same.

Who in their right mind would even consider giving some low level puke this kind of power. That and the ability to strip search you on the spot or handcuff you to a hospital bed for a few days, just because they want to.

It's not just the rudeness. It's the whole bad package from start to finish: $100 visa and interview for some, fingerprints, photographs, TSA harassment, stupid exit forms. Rudeness is just a small bit of icing on a very unappealing cake. There's nothing delicate about it.

maybe I misread the OP. I thought the main complaint was the rudeness.

No kidding. A few examples experienced by friends of mine:

1) Female Ecuadorian military officer / professor who applied for a visa to attend a technical conference in the U.S. was accused of actually wanting to visit the U.S. for purposes of engaging in prostitution during her visa interview;

2) Canadian national partner of Accenture residing in Hong Kong was accused of engaging in some sort of nefarious activity because U.S. had no record of his departing from a prior visit--- he was rudely threatened with a permanent ban from the U.S. for no apparent reason (which he sad he would be fine with him-- he was close to retirement, but I suspect also planned to get Accenture's legal department involved if they had actually attempted to make good on the threat);

3) Nigerian CEO of a large, West African real estate development company en route to Harvard University for an executive conference was detained for unclear reasons and subjected to vague accusations of criminality (visa, etc. was all in order). Intervention by Harvard personnel was required to facilitate his admission (again, all documents were perfectly in order).

In all cases, the U.S. personnel charged with enforcement responsibility behaved in a rude, highly unprofessional manner without provocation-- and I've witnessed others enduring similar during their attempts to enter the U.S.

To be sure, over 99% of the time, what I have seen is highly professional and courteous--- but things can go south with the wrong officers, and I'm not sure what sort of practical recourse a foreign national has when encountering these situations.

I can not agree that an employee should be terminated for a single act of being rude/inconsiderate. I wonder how many people would want to be fired from their job because of a single failure. However, I whole-heartedly agree that employees should be held accountable for their actions and for meeting the standards set by the organization for which they work.

I agree with cynicAAl that boycotting an entire nation because of a few incidents of rudeness is not a rational choice. I am a 'non-caucasian' and I can tell you that I have had less than pleasant experiences when dealing with government employees in several foreign countries. I mention the 'non-caucasian' part because it is relevant. Ever pass through customs and noticed that the only people asked to have their bags inspected were 'non-caucasian'? I have noticed that happening on almost every entry into a certain country. Should all 'non-caucasians' or even the rest of the world stop visiting that country?




'... low level puke...'!!! Wait! What? Wow, just wow! I presume you feel the same way about Police/Law Enforcement Officers who can arrest/deprive someone of their liberty 'just because they want to.' BTW, it takes more than just a single CBP Officer's decision to handcuff someone to a hospital bed for days.



I find the 'fees' without a guaranteed visa to be unconscionable. The fingerprinting is not something I would put up with unless it was for a very, very good job opportunity. I avoid UK because of the mandatory full body scanners [think, TSA harassment]. I don't have a problem with the exit form. A lot of the countries I have visited have an exit form that is collected upon departure.

Some people should just not have customer-facing jobs. Ever. Not that it does any good, but apologies to the OP for their trying experience.

On the other side of the coin my Mexican sister-in-law came north to visit last year and on arrival to LAX it was discovered at the CBP immigration booth that her USA visa had expired. She was confused about the date format on her visa (an older one) where the dates were in MM/DD/YY format and my sister-in-law thought they were in DD/MM/YY format as she is used to in Mexico. How she was boarded at MEX is still a mystery. Passport Booth Officer referred her to secondary. She says they made her wait a couple of hours to meet with somebody as there were a lot of people to process - they did allow her to call us in the meantime. Finally she got to meet with Secondary Officer and she explained that she obviously made a mistake in assuming the visa was still valid based on her misunderstanding of the date format (which wasn't explicitly labeled) and that all she wanted to do was come visit her family in northern California. (By the way the new visas have the month spelled out in abbreviation to eliminate this kind of confusion).

Now at this point my sister-in-law was assuming the CBP would refuse her entry and put her right back on a plane to Mexico. I mean come on, she's a Mexican trying to enter the USA on a expired visa after all!

Sister-in-law said throughout the interview the officer was very courteous and explained what he was checking for - records of entry/exit and any criminal records. At the end the officer said he could understand how the date could have been misinterpreted and that based on her prior history of visits to the USA and her strong ties to Mexico he'd go ahead and admit her with a promise that she'd go get her visa renewed at the US Embassy in Mexico City when she returned home.

So not everybody at CBP is a jerk on a power trip.

Similar experience in NZ
 

I read this thread and had to respond as I had a similar experience recently. I have been through immigration and customs in the US and I'll admit there are times that officers have been unnecessarily rude but overall, it's been a normal experience. I always hate the long lines for non-citizens/perm residents though. As it turns out, they don't happen only in the US - I recently flew to Melbourne in Australia (it was a morning flight) and the lines were huge - probably took close to an hour to get through immirgation and after collecting my luggage, had to wait on another long line to clear customs. But that's not what I wanted to share.

I have wanted to spend New Year's in New Zealand since I visited in 2011, so I booked an award ticket in Business Class from Europe, arriving the morning of the 31st (of December) in Christchurch. I figured it would be a breeze as it was last time and then I can be off to my hotel and take a nap before the NYE celebration. Well, it didn't work out that way. When I approached passport control, I was stopped and sent to a supervisor. They started asking me questions about why I'm going there, why I'm only staying for a few days, why last time I was there for a "short" period of time as well. After I answered all of their questions (and the person was courteous), I was told everything's OK, nothing to worry about - I was handed my passport and had to go through customs. They sent me to a special line where I was greeted by another officer and she escorted me to a table where she started asking me a lot of questions - what do I do, why I'm there, purpose of the trip, why so short, when do I leave, etc. I again answered all of their questions - during that time, she was taking notes of EVERYTHING I was saying.

After grilling me for a while, she started going through my luggage and at one point she mentioned that I'm probably wondering why this is all happening. She then went on to say that short stays and traveling from such a long distance are consistent with drug trafficing. She took all of my belongings out - and started asking me about every single non-clothing item - what is this, why do you need it? At one point, she said people use all sorts of ways to hide drugs. She had me fill out a form if I had anything to declare - I had nothing, so didn't enter anything and then she proceeded to ask me: "Are you sure you don't want to amend this form?" I was positive. They ran my suitcases through their scanner, tested some of my electronics for explosives - found nothing, of course. At about that time, the original supervisor showed up and started apologizing for being held for so long and do I have sufficient funds to cover my stay, which I said I did. All in all, I think I spoke to 3 different people, asking me pretty much the same questions, hoping that I'll probably slip up and give them a different answer. They had a theory they were desperately trying to prove. After all of that, they finally released me and stamped my passport. I thought that was the end of it. But NO.

Several hours later when I was napping at my hotel room I got a knock at the door and when I opened it I noticed 2 police officers standing in front of it and they started asking me the same questions all over again. Apparently, the airport staff had filed a police report and they were following up on it. The harrassment continued. Especially, after being so apologetic for helding me up at the airport. This time, the questioning didn't take so long and they left shortly. At that point, I started thinking about getting on the next flight out of the country - I had had it with this.

So, all in all, I'll take the "abuse" of American CBP officers over this - fake politeness, only to keep harassing you. I did enjoy my stay in New Zealand and I'm fully aware that most people are not like that but will that make me more likely to visit NZ again? Probably not. Not sure it's worth this "extra" treatment. I'm not judging the nation as a whole but the policies in place and the people that carry them out. Not going to generalize and apply that to the entire population as the OP seems to do.

One thing I have noticed--I've entered the country something like 20 times by now. Only once was I unhappy with how we were treated at immigration--the one time we were directed through the non-citizen line. (Load balancing, the non-citizen lines were almost empty that day.) It could just be chance but I wonder if it isn't.

Agreed. But in this case, the nature of the abuse from this agent indicates ingrained habit.

No, because police are much more restricted in what they can legally do to you sans probable cause. They can be fired and sued. CBP can do more to you because of your [wrongfully] diminished rights at the border. Hence the gratuitous strip searches and sexual fondling experienced by at least 8 Canadian women suing female CBP agents at the Detroit crossing. Nothing has been done to the perps, so any satisfaction must be had by federal lawsuit.

Or, take the CBP conduct where African American women were strip searched without cause, as exposed by CBP whistleblower Cathy Harris, and the multi million dollar judgement rendered for this behavior by a federal court.

In short, no, I have no issue with a cop til he proves by his actions to be outside the law. But I do have a serious issue with a CBP person's power over me at the border. And there's no way a foreign tourist paying $6K for passage should be sent back at the loss of this money simply because some idiot low level person is having a bad day.

Ok, it takes two pukes. But as Cathy Harris testified, it still happens capriciously and it should be unlawful without judicial process.

There's no way to defend the actions of the CBP officer.

That said, I've had equally rude treatment flying into Australia, the UK, and, to a lesser extent, New Zealand, but, by far, worst of all, Canada.

If I was not a U.S. Citizen I doubt I would visit the U.S. Too many other places in the world that actually want me. That being said, the Department of Homeland Security does not have a monopoly on such things. UK border control is no picnic, and the Australians are not exactly friendly to visiting foreigners. Maybe it's an Anglo thing?

I'm non-caucasian as well, though I've never really considered that to be an issue during my travels. I will say however, I have had a few encounters with government employees that I would consider brusque or worse outside the US. For example, I would consider both my experiences at Schipol to be unpleasant, but especially the one that included a hand shoved into my low-waisted jeans well below the beltline during a rather rough 'patdown'. Would I let that stop me from going back to Amsterdam? No.

When SFO a few years ago first installed those funny machines that puffed air at people I called them the "arab detectors" because the security clowns pretty much always send anyone male with light or medium brown skin (and especially headgear) through it, while skipping the caucasians and asians and others who weren't suspected of being Arab. Ever time my family sent someone off on a trip we would make a game of predicting who would get sent through. I vividly remember some poor guy in a turban having to get out of his wheelchair and stumble through while various Aryan Nation types breezed on past.

Sadly, 0. And I don't know what the Accenture legal department could do if our brave border protectors banned a "suspected Canadian extremist" from entering the U.S. It's not like Canadians have any sort of right to enter.

Actually, I believe the rudest Customs/Agriculture officials in the whole world can be found in Australia so please excuse me if I am less than sympathetic. You get rude and nasty officials in many countries and while the US has its share, I've also found most ICE personnel today are very courteous and there are signs with contact information encouraging people to report any unsatisfactory interactions..

I've had similar experiances.

Once into Australia it was just horrid, and I was on an Official Passport at the time to train their military. Very, Very Rude. The other was pleasant enough. Again the US can be rude too, but it seems all the big English speaking countries have issues. I had a real bad one in Alberta once, and one who could not understand why I would go to a wedding alone in Wales at MAN.

In Europe I've seen more people harrased leaving than entering Schengen..

Wow, blast from the past (no pun intended). They had those puffer machines at the CN Tower in Toronto for awhile. Are they used anymore?

As a US Citizen ... We can enforce our rules and be strict ... But at no point while doing that at an airport that is located within our own borders do we need to have our people who are doing this job act and be rude. They can and should always conduct themselves as professionals. They don't need to raise their voice or be rude. In a sense they are ambassadors for our nation and the first contact point for visitors. Frankly if they find someone's paperwork or contents of their bags, etc out of order or wrong they can politely put them back on the next plane out of the country. They are working in a controlled environment where they have all the power and authority and backup ... So there is no call for them to be rude. They do a disservice to the nation as a whole when they behave rudely.

Note: personally I've never had any issues or problems

I would be completely in favor of a boycott if there were a likelihood of it having any effect. However, the US is always going to have plenty of visitors. Even if the US is no longer what it once was to Europeans and Australians, remember that to young, newly wealthy Chinese and other Asian people, America represents a dream. Therefore, there is always going to be a steady stream of visitors.

I personally have been subjected to rude customs treatment in only a few countries, but I do not blacklist them because that would harm myself more than the country. There are 6 billion people in the world, but only one USA. One person boycotting the USA is going to hurt that person more than it hurts the country. Same goes for any other country.

Do you frequent restaurants where the employees are rude to you? Hotels? Shops? Do you spend money there? No? - You ARE boycotting them, then.

Why should it be different with countires? (especially if on leasure, ie. you have 194 other options to go to)

Well, let's be honest, politically, Australia is America's lapdog.
When the US took the lead post 911, and all airport visitors were treated like suspects, Australia followed the lead.
So it's no coincidence that these two countries are the ones
most likely to mistreat you in the airport.

And this, I believe, is very telling.

I agree that no visitor to the USA should be sent back simply because the examining CBP/ICE Officer is having a bad day. However, my sympathy is not limited to those who are paid a high price to travel to the USA.

I also do not consider an Examining Officer to be a 'low level puke' or 'some idiot low level person'. The individuals who hold the positions in question are well trained in their job functions and their responsibilities to the United States and the traveling public. On a rare occasion an individual or even small group of individuals fail to meet the standards which have been set for them. That failure could be intentional or accidental but it is still a failure and should be dealt with accordingly. There are cases in which the failure or failures are so numerous or institutional that they permeate a whole division or the agency, but I have seen no evidence that this is the case for CBP/ICE. Therefore, I would not tar all CBP/ICE personnel with the same brush as those who commit serious failures.

This is the last I will type on this matter. I believe I now understand the underlying reason why you chose the words you did to describe a whole class of employees.

Hi All

Many thanks to all your replies.

As one poster noted its not just the rudeness for my change of heart to not come back. And i do realise that my choice not to visit makes no difference to anyone or the country. I just think its sad thats all. To me it was like going to a dinner party and having the door slammed in your face. Your not welcome here! Would you go back for more? The rudeness, the cost for a visa, the time it takes to get there and then get attacked and treated like a criminal. Nah i can do without it.There is just no need for the treatment we received and as an outsider you have absoultely no recourse.

As one poster said you shouldnt judge a country by one person and that is absoultely true as i said in my original post.



To those who commented on Aussie customs/immigration may i say i apologise if they have been rude to you. I myself have found them at times a little abrupt but not rude. Mind you, as my home country if they were rude i would pull them up on it without the fear of ramifications.