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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Opt out = Red flag (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1297428-opt-out-red-flag.html)

tanja Jan 2, 2012 1:07 pm
Originally Posted by CelticPax (Post 17732448)
I thought the TSA technically required the phrase "I opt out"?

After the sneaky New Year's Eve signing of the NDAA, I suppose it did just get a little bit more dangerous to opt out, so maybe the screener was informed and somewhat helpful. Kind of like points on your license now, too many red flags and you get disappeared.

Not that that would keep me from opting out.
Not that I'm even more inclined to stop boycotting flying in TSA airspace.
That phrase "I opt-out" is mostly known by americans.
Not one that I know from the rest of the world have heard those words.

They would just say "no, not going inot a "nude machine".

RichardKenner Jan 2, 2012 1:41 pm
Originally Posted by CelticPax (Post 17732448)
I thought the TSA technically required the phrase "I opt out"?
No. The sign says "use of this technology is optional". It doesn't give a specific set of words to use. I'd recommend "I can't use the scanner" because it's nocommittal: it doesn't say why, specifically whether it's due to a disability, concern over radiation or other reasons.

GUWonder Jan 2, 2012 1:46 pm
Originally Posted by Superguy (Post 17729009)
My ex traveled with my son over the holiday out of BWI and SLC. I had told them about the NoS, in particular that I didn't want our son going thru them.

She talked to TSA at BWI about it and she mentioned "opt out" and they're like "Don't say that up there ... we treat that as a red flag. Say anything but that."

I found that interesting that they seem to be treating "opt outs" as trouble makers. Doesn't surprise me really, but that's the first time I've heard that. Saying like "I'd rather not" seemed less "offensive" to them.

Any of you hear about anything like that?

Super
The minor and companion may end up being "opted out" without declaring that they are "opting out" of the strip search machine searches. That's why currently I wouldn't mention any such thing if in such a situation unless and until minor companion(s) and I are directed to the strip search machines and then my first line of response would be I am accompanying a "U12" minor child.

edweird Jan 3, 2012 10:04 am
If the WTMD is being blocked, I will make eye contact with the blocker, and as I motion towards it, state "I'd like to use this"

If they direct me to the NoS instead, which has been 100% of the time when someone was blocking the WTMD, it is then, and only then that I state "male opt out".

mikeef Jan 3, 2012 2:07 pm
Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 17730669)
Using the 'opt out' wording marks you as a Flyertalker and therefore ipso facto a troublemaker in the eyes of the TSA. Or domestic terrorist, if you prefer :p .
I just have my FT luggage tag. Wait, I also have a MP one. Does that cancel it out?

Mike

cottonmather0 Jan 3, 2012 2:54 pm
Like most business travelers, the contents of my briefcase and my roller bag don't change between trips. In fact, most of the items in my bags - except for clothes - stay in my bags all the time when I am at home.

I can say without question that whenever I go through a WTMD, my bags come out the other end of the x-ray belt with no problems every single time and I go on my way. But whenever there is a scanner being used, I opt-out every single time and every single time my bag is at least swabbed and usually it's opened and emptied and searched. Every. Single. Time.

I'm not sure if it's retaliation for opting out of the scanner at all or if it's retaliation for my - ahem - assertive attitude, but my own experience says that opting out is something that is not looked kindly upon and they want to put subtle pressure on you not to rock the boat next time.

(And maybe the "assertive attitude" is what they're tying to saying "opt out" here... I realize that)

chollie Jan 3, 2012 4:13 pm
Originally Posted by cottonmather0 (Post 17740239)
Like most business travelers, the contents of my briefcase and my roller bag don't change between trips. In fact, most of the items in my bags - except for clothes - stay in my bags all the time when I am at home.

I can say without question that whenever I go through a WTMD, my bags come out the other end of the x-ray belt with no problems every single time and I go on my way. But whenever there is a scanner being used, I opt-out every single time and every single time my bag is at least swabbed and usually it's opened and emptied and searched. Every. Single. Time.

I'm not sure if it's retaliation for opting out of the scanner at all or if it's retaliation for my - ahem - assertive attitude, but my own experience says that opting out is something that is not looked kindly upon and they want to put subtle pressure on you not to rock the boat next time.
I've had the same experience. I am an involuntary medical 'opt-out' - I can't assume and hold the position. This not only guarantees me a grope every time I fly, for some reason my physical limitation also guarantees a bag search when I fly.

cardiomd Jan 3, 2012 6:18 pm
Originally Posted by cottonmather0 (Post 17740239)
Like most business travelers, the contents of my briefcase and my roller bag don't change between trips. In fact, most of the items in my bags - except for clothes - stay in my bags all the time when I am at home.

I can say without question that whenever I go through a WTMD, my bags come out the other end of the x-ray belt with no problems every single time and I go on my way. But whenever there is a scanner being used, I opt-out every single time and every single time my bag is at least swabbed and usually it's opened and emptied and searched. Every. Single. Time.

I'm not sure if it's retaliation for opting out of the scanner at all or if it's retaliation for my - ahem - assertive attitude, but my own experience says that opting out is something that is not looked kindly upon and they want to put subtle pressure on you not to rock the boat next time.

(And maybe the "assertive attitude" is what they're tying to saying "opt out" here... I realize that)
It's their policy... I wouldn't read too much into their "retaliation"... the TSA has just decided (obviously incorrectly) that anybody who "opts-out" is a higher risk individual and run the secondary tests. I have the same results as you - I have never had a bag secondary outside of having to opt-out. Unfortunately I seem to be selected for the cancer box all the time recently, the fraction of people going through it has likely gone up or I'm traveling at more non-peak times.

OxonCantab Jan 4, 2012 3:04 am
Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 17741427)
It's their policy... I wouldn't read too much into their "retaliation"... the TSA has just decided (obviously incorrectly) that anybody who "opts-out" is a higher risk individual and run the secondary tests. I have the same results as you - I have never had a bag secondary outside of having to opt-out. Unfortunately I seem to be selected for the cancer box all the time recently, the fraction of people going through it has likely gone up or I'm traveling at more non-peak times.
there are also more of them around now ....

Global_Hi_Flyer Jan 4, 2012 12:28 pm
Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 17741427)
It's their policy... I wouldn't read too much into their "retaliation"... the TSA has just decided (obviously incorrectly) that anybody who "opts-out" is a higher risk individual and run the secondary tests. I have the same results as you - I have never had a bag secondary outside of having to opt-out. Unfortunately I seem to be selected for the cancer box all the time recently, the fraction of people going through it has likely gone up or I'm traveling at more non-peak times.
Higher Risk? I think not. It's more like the way a 2 striper put it at RDU: "Maybe you'll remember this, learn your lesson, and not opt out next time". Clear retaliation.

Allan38103 Jan 4, 2012 12:35 pm
Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 17746829)
Higher Risk? I think not. It's more like the way a 2 striper put it at RDU: "Maybe you'll remember this, learn your lesson, and not opt out next time". Clear retaliation.

Ask, "Would you please repeat that for the benefit of the recording?"

cardiomd Jan 4, 2012 3:45 pm
Originally Posted by OxonCantab (Post 17743580)
there are also more of them around now ....
Indeed. Very unfortunate. Will get much worse with that 2012 budget.

Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 17746829)
Higher Risk? I think not. It's more like the way a 2 striper put it at RDU: "Maybe you'll remember this, learn your lesson, and not opt out next time". Clear retaliation.
I'm not arguing with you (agreed this is an effect), but I'm saying that the policy was set by "above" and that is the "justification." If somebody said that to you I'd ask them to repeat it, and get their name, very unacceptable.

aeroman380 Jan 4, 2012 3:48 pm
Seems like you are guilty until proven innocent if they treat it with red flag.

RichardKenner Jan 4, 2012 3:54 pm
Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 17741427)
It's their policy... I wouldn't read too much into their "retaliation"... the TSA has just decided (obviously incorrectly) that anybody who "opts-out" is a higher risk individual and run the secondary tests. I have the same results as you - I have never had a bag secondary outside of having to opt-out. Unfortunately I seem to be selected for the cancer box all the time recently, the fraction of people going through it has likely gone up or I'm traveling at more non-peak times.
A friend of mine who always opts out has never had a bag secondary either, so this certainly is not a uniform policy.

Global_Hi_Flyer Jan 4, 2012 4:49 pm
Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 17748332)
I'm not arguing with you (agreed this is an effect), but I'm saying that the policy was set by "above" and that is the "justification." If somebody said that to you I'd ask them to repeat it, and get their name, very unacceptable.
Happens all the time.

"Hello, my name Peggy...."


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