In my experience, there are two types of elderly passengers: those who won't do anything they're asked to do and the group you describe. they say "if we have to do this to be safe, I'll do". If TSO's are saying "everbody take your shoes off!", they'll feel they have to do it. If, instead, what's said is: "please remove your shoes if you feel it's safe to do so", there'll be a very different result. But that's not what's said. And as long as it isn't, it'll continue to cause these sorts of problems.

In the particular case I mentioned, the family member said: "She has alzheimer's and isn't going to be able to follow any instructions". That's about as specific as you can get. The TSO's response was "Then how are we going to screen her?". The only conceivable response to that is "I have no idea; that's your job: not mine!".

What is rare? Can you give us a percentage and then translate that into thousands of passengers? Even a ballpark number. Because it does happen.

I would think the proper response would be to figure out or think about ways to ensure it NEVER happens, rather than berating those who point out that this behavior occurs. Contrary to your belief, folks dislike the TSA BECAUSE of things like this, not because they have some inborn need to bash the TSA.

I don't see how he, or anybody else, can even give an estimate on this because there's absolutely no way to measure it. In my opinion, that's a large part of the problem. An organization like the TSA has to be "dual prong". On the one side, they have a legitimate interest in security. But on the other, they have to treat passengers with dignity and respect their privacy. For the first prong, there are "red teams" that can be used to generate statistics of how well they detect WEI. But there aren't any "mystery passengers" sent through the checkpoint every hour with various types of disabilities or other special needs to see how well TSOs handle them.

And as long as there aren't, these problems will continue. These need to be taken as seriously as "red teams".

Liked your first line.
Never thought about it before. But I guess "they learn" as they go.

And that is very unprofessional.

Agree. SATTSO shouldn't use the term "rare" as it cannot be determined just what this means...

Agree. Incidents of passenger abuse will only disappear if the punishment for performing the abuse is sure and swift. However, SATTSO's take on this (gee, only a FEW people get abused) is similar to his boss Pistole's take (these are "one-offs"). To me, this sure shows a clear disregard for the last prong you mention. If they considered not abusing passengers to be important, they would do as you say and aggressively use the "mystery passenger" and they would NEVER allow one or two TSA clerks to disappear in a secluded hut with some unfortunate passenger. (There has to be an unbiased person there someone to protect both the pax and the clerks.) And there needs to be elimination of SSI when it comes to things easy to find out and that only serves to to put passengers completely at the mercy of clerks, which is guaranteed to encourage abuse.

What you suggest is work and expense. It is far easier to claim that the abuse is rare. Without supporting numbers.

There is a saying "what goes around comes around".

Wonder what TSA would say if their loved ones gets treated with disrespect and humiliated.

Alas, I'm too young to vividly remember...

How were people with wheelchairs or metal prosthetic body parts/implants screened before 9/11? HHMD?

This is quite true. There are a large number of folks from earlier generations that were raised to believe what the government tells them, and to do what the government says to do. They would rather submit than stand up for their rights.

The generation that took on the '60s learned to question authority. They learned to stand up for their rights - many risked arrest.

Today's generation suffers from helicopter parents & overarching "protection". They are taught that they must be protected.... and are far less likely to stand up for themselves.

I could go on, but that's really Omni/PR territory.

I dont know.
Cause you never heard of any wrong doing.
Security at that time were mostly very polite. Not invasive, very polite.

People were not treated as criminals or sex objects.

I used to respect security not any more.

I think that where problems can arise is when TSOs are not used to dealing with 'abnormal'. For instance, I wear a medical device which looks nothing like a medical device; even people who have known me for some time think that it is some form of 'cool' jewelry unless they know what it is. I have a German colleague my age who wears a form of hearing aid not seen in the US very commonly, if at all, and which don't like like hearing aids but also some form of 'cool' jewelry. What we both wear isn't uncommon at all in western Europe, but the US hasn't quite caught up on this front yet, and they are very rare there.

If someone asks, I am more than happy to explain what it is. But when I try and explain that it is a medical device which per TSA own rules does not need to be removed, and I am shouted at, or called difficult, then it does more than just annoy me.

If I present myself and say that I have physical issues, I shouldn't be disbelieved or it shouldn't be assumed that I am not telling the truth.

But I have had that happen on several occasions.

I raised holy hell at a screener at the WTMD at T5 @LAX last summer when they made my Mom walk through the metal detector. I said she's in a wheel chair and should be screened in the wheel chair. She wobbles like a webelo and she does fall down. The wheel chair person didn't understand English and I was really pissed off at all of them, and my Mom was too. The kid at the WTMD looked like he was brand new. No excuse. In a wheel chair, stay in a wheel chair. They can clear both at the same time.

I am my Mom's advocate. Her health and her mobility are important to her and anything that threatens that I will go after like a terrier.

And I have a disability that's hidden and prevents me from using the scanners. I get the pat down and then tell them I can't raise my right arm without severe pain and discomfort and to deal with it.

As others have, quite adequately, replied already: TSA official policy may not require any of those things (or it may - we can't know, can we?) but some individual TSA employees are requiring those things. Do you dispute that Ryan Thomas was forced to remove his leg braces to go through the WTMD?

Let me break that down for you. 4-year-old boy FORCED to remove braces by TSA screener. TSA admits that the incident happened. Yes, AFTER THE FACT they say there are other ways he could have been screened, but that doesn't change what happened to Ryan on the day.

I've said before, your official policy doesn't mean squat. The only thing that matters is what the screener does at the checkpoint on the day.

Do you dispute that Thomas Sawyer had his ostomy bag emptied all over his clothes? There's no point in talking about what "should have happened" or what happened to other people with ostomy bags, or what you would have done if you'd been there. But what actually happened to Thomas. Do you think he said "oh, well, that wasn't the official procedure so I guess it's okay?"

Do you dispute that Cathy Bossi was forced to remove a breast prosthesis? Do you think that the statement by TSA later, "that shouldn't happen" made it okay?

The list I provided, with hyperlinks, are all real incidents. They happened. You can keep saying "it doesn't happen" or "it shouldn't happen" but it doesn't change the truth.
I've made no secret of the fact that I haven't traveled to or within the USA since 2008 and I have no intention of returning while your sorry agency is running airport security. Prior to that I had a number of trips through US airports; I was yelled at, had my handbag whisked out of my sight without warning, and was rudely patted down. I went through security three times as a wheelchair passenger. While I experienced nothing as disturbing as Thomas Sawyer or Ryan Thomas or Cathy Bossi or Sharon Cessna, I saw enough to convince me that their stories are believable.

Anyway, so what? I've never been raped, or murdered, or shot, or kidnapped, or mugged. Should I believe those things never happen to anyone unless they happened to me?

Part of the problem here is that "forced" is a very imprecise word and can mean different things to different people. Technically, to "force" somebody to do something means threatening something bad if the thing isn't done. But what is the threat in this case? Jail time? A fine? Not being allowed through the checkpoint? A secondary search? Or maybe it's just that somebody official making a request is viewed as "forcing". It's hard to know how to interpret many of these anecdotes without knowing more about the details of the "forcing".

The child was forced to remove the braces:

http://www.newser.com/story/80989/ts...eg-braces.html

TSA apologized for the incident.