Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 17574908)

The cost is down on my list of complaints, way down.

The PIPI that is the center of discussion in this thread is just the newest infringement added to a long list.

We now have to submit our names and personal information to be compared to multiple lists of dubious creation to allow us to enter the process without creating additional screening requirements. The source of this information is unknown and secret. The reason we may be on the list, if we are, is unknown and secret. The advanced screening to which we may be subject is unknown and secret.

We must present a valid ID with our boarding papers, an exercise of limited security value but necessary anyway.

At the discretion of a government actor, we can be selected to undergo a virtual scan of or nude body with the option of selection a law enforcement style physical search instead. This is done without any probable cause or suspicion except for the fact that we wish to get on airplane and fly somewhere.

We are told our personal papers can be searched. We are told that they may record our information from documents and credit cards. We may be asked why we are carrying cash and valuables. We have to specially declare and justify medications. People with medical implants, prostheses, medical devices must justify their existence. People requiring wheelchairs and assist devices are required to prove that they are not using these devices to hide contraband often in painful and embarrassing procedures.

Anomalies detected in any of these processes may lead to further more intrusive searches or our denial of travel. Objections to the process can lead to our personal information being collected and added to some list that is both secret in is purpose and reason. We can be fined for interfering with the process, a description of said offense being secret.

We may be further subjected to additional searches and inspections of or bodies, belongings, liquids and matches of our papers and ID yet again, before we can board the plane.

Most of this is not authorized specifically by any properly created regulation or public law except that that may be granted by an unlimited authority to "do whatever needs to be done, we will justify it later" attitude. (The previous quote is a rhetorical creation for descriptive effect of the process and is not an actual quote, so please do not accuse me of making up quotes as it was rhetorical.) Attempts to determine the actual process is met with the reply that it is secret and we can not be told, but be assured we must comply with this secret process and its secret penalties.

We are told that we can not lawfully photograph this process, even when we can, and may be threatened with arrest for attempting to do so.

All of this is on top of the reasonable processes instituted to detect WEI such as bag xray and searches, ETD, WTMD and the now defunct HHMD.

The cost is a problem, without a doubt. Yet on my list of complaints, it is way down the list.

Originally Posted by STBCypriot (Post 17574892)

Simple response - "I decline to participate in this pilot program."

Expect retaliation.

Originally Posted by knotyeagle (Post 17575063)

"In your administrative search for weapons, explosives or incendiaries, am I required to answer that question?"

I did this at Dallas (DAL) mid-November, did it again on Friday at Fort Lauderdale (FLL) checkpoint charlie (quite appropriate behavior for that reason) with lead screener (designated psychic reader). He seemed quite disappointed that he could not see what my micro-facial expressions were.

The beauty of this whole encounter is that if you do not answer the questions you get sent to secondary, which is what I was going thru anyway because I opted out.

I enjoyed it, more so than the screener it seems.

Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 17574908)

The cost is down on my list of complaints, way down.

The PIPI that is the center of discussion in this thread is just the newest infringement added to a long list.

Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 17574908)

We now have to submit our names and personal information ...

We must present a valid ID with our boarding papers, an exercise of limited security value but necessary anyway...

At the discretion of a government actor, we can be selected to undergo a virtual scan of or nude body with the option of selection a law enforcement style physical search instead.....

We are told our personal papers can be searched.
We are told that they may record our information from documents and credit cards.
.... People with medical implants, prostheses, medical devices must justify their existence. People requiring wheelchairs and assist devices are required to prove that they are not using these devices to hide contraband ...

....

We may be further subjected to additional searches and inspections of or bodies, belongings, liquids and matches of our papers and ID yet again, before we can board the plane.

Most of this is not authorized specifically by any properly created regulation or public law except that that may be granted by an unlimited authority to "do whatever needs to be done

Originally Posted by nachtnebel (Post 17575746)

You aren't being rhetorical. This is exactly what the federal court said in the EPIC lawsuit because it is explicitly stated in the act passed by congress. The congress, the president, and the supreme court, all three branches of the federal government, granted TSA a blank check to behave in an Arbitrary and Capricious manner. Arbitrary and capricious conduct on the part of government is illegal on its face, yet the federals have given the TSA this mode of operation. They granted powers they don't have themselves.
This is nothing but contempt for law, and rule by brute force. And that is why in the Senate defense authorization bill passed last week the senate rescinded the prohibition against using the US military on the citizens in the US. They intend to rule by force.

Originally Posted by nachtnebel (Post 17575746)

bolding mine..

You aren't being rhetorical. This is exactly what the federal court said in the EPIC lawsuit because it is explicitly stated in the act passed by congress. The congress, the president, and the supreme court, all three branches of the federal government, granted TSA a blank check to behave in an Arbitrary and Capricious manner. Arbitrary and capricious conduct on the part of government is illegal on its face, yet the federals have given the TSA this mode of operation. They granted powers they don't have themselves.
This is nothing but contempt for law, and rule by brute force. And that is why in the Senate defense authorization bill passed last week the senate rescinded the prohibition against using the US military on the citizens in the US. They intend to rule by force.

Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago (Post 17576682)

Maybe this needs to be said again...

Every time you agree to be complicit in these procedures, you are encouraging them.

If you answer the BDO questions, you are supporting the program.

If you use the AIT, you are supporting the AIT.

At this point, especially in FT, we all know what is possible at the airport and must plan ahead for it, including making sure we have plenty of time at the airport to miss a flight or two.

It's time every one of us took responsibility for our roles in this. If we still choose to travel in the current conditions, anything less than opting out is support for the TSA. No, it's worse. It's encouragement.

Originally Posted by G_Wolf (Post 17575263)

What is "PIPI"?

Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 17577908)

How does TSA respond at these chatdowns if you answer every one of their questions with a question like:

why do you want to know?
why is this relevant?
what difference does it make?
why are you asking me these questions?

If you just keep answering with more questions how long will they try to keep it up?