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-   -   Are WTMDs detecting particulate matter? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1259826-wtmds-detecting-particulate-matter.html)

CDKing Sep 18, 2011 8:19 pm

I got the random check after going through WTMD 2 out of my last 3 trips. Firist time they swabbed my shoes and second time my laptop

SATTSO Sep 19, 2011 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 17126417)
Well, had you used any hand lotion you would likely received a TSA grope down.

That is simply not true.

SATTSO Sep 19, 2011 5:13 pm


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 17127367)
How often have you been tested shortly after being to the range?

Ron is correct. One of the BAO's I have worked with who started at TSA around 2007 or 8 (cant remember now), has told me he would always alarm for explosives when he traveled and if tested - up to a week after handling whatever he did handle. This was before he worked for TSA and was still in the military.

Tom M. Sep 19, 2011 5:21 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17137384)
Ron is correct. One of the BAO's I have worked with who started at TSA around 2007 or 8 (cant remember now), has told me he would always alarm for explosives when he traveled and if tested - up to a week after handling whatever he did handle. This was before he worked for TSA and was still in the military.

What does this BAO say about alarming after using "normal" firearms?

SATTSO Sep 19, 2011 5:47 pm


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 17137421)
What does this BAO say about alarming after using "normal" firearms?

It is possible to alarm with "normal" firearms, but it is sort of uncommon. As example, because of its location SAT processes sometimes hundreds of guns a day during specific seasons and/or gun shows. Almost no alarms, and many of those alarms other than for the firearm/ammunition. Understand that ETDs do NOT alarm at a drop of a hat. It takes a bit of a punch to get an alarm.

Scubatooth Sep 19, 2011 5:49 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 17127136)
I am an avid shooter and have never experienced a problem with the ETD's alarming because of it. I suspect that as long as one is not handling military grade large caliber ammo that there wouldn’t be any.


SL powder is SL powder the formulas and composition are just about the same even in the military rounds.

I have gone from the range to the plane and never had it pick up the powder residue, and I've shot plenty of SS109, M855, XM1022, M33 and it not pick up, yet it will false positive on my aftershave and skin lotion due to glycol and glycrin contents. Yet another SNAFU in reguards to TSA and testing for "WEI"

Tom M. Sep 19, 2011 5:57 pm


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17137527)
Understand that ETDs do NOT alarm at a drop of a hat. It takes a bit of a punch to get an alarm.

But they do alarm on glycerine?

realjd Sep 20, 2011 8:46 am


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17137527)
It is possible to alarm with "normal" firearms, but it is sort of uncommon. As example, because of its location SAT processes sometimes hundreds of guns a day during specific seasons and/or gun shows. Almost no alarms, and many of those alarms other than for the firearm/ammunition. Understand that ETDs do NOT alarm at a drop of a hat. It takes a bit of a punch to get an alarm.

I'll use a range bag as a backup travel bag on occasion (after a thorough search to make sure it's completely empty!). I'm sure it's full of residue. I've never had it alarm the ETD machine when they swab it.

SATTSO Sep 20, 2011 9:05 am


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 17137575)
But they do alarm on glycerine?

The CAN alarm on glycerine, as that is used in some explosives. CAN alarm is not the same as WILL.

SATTSO Sep 20, 2011 9:06 am


Originally Posted by realjd (Post 17140493)
I'll use a range bag as a backup travel bag on occasion (after a thorough search to make sure it's completely empty!). I'm sure it's full of residue. I've never had it alarm the ETD machine when they swab it.

There is a perception here that if you have even a trace amount of some residue on you or your bag, the ETD will alarm. That is simply not true. Oh, the ETD will detect it, but as to whether or not it will alarm is another matter.

Boggie Dog Sep 20, 2011 9:32 am


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17137367)
That is simply not true.

Your response is just more TSA bs. Etd does alarm on components in handcreams.

If there is an alarm a grope down is likely.

nachtnebel Sep 20, 2011 9:35 am


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17140604)
The CAN alarm on glycerine, as that is used in some explosives. CAN alarm is not the same as WILL.

Oh, so I go to the airport and on any given day, the ETD *might* alarm on me because of some normal cleanser or other legal, commonly used substance I might use. Will today be the day? Who knows? Maybe it's kismet. And then you'll ask to rub my testicles in the private hut, and I won't, and so I'll travel some other way that day or not at all.

Oh goody, I just love playing russian roulette. Puts the adventure back in flying, don't it?

Tom M. Sep 20, 2011 9:40 am


Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17140614)
Oh, the ETD will detect it, but as to whether or not it will alarm is another matter.

Interesting that the ETD might not alarm on actual explosives residue, but might alarm on non-explosives.

Global_Hi_Flyer Sep 20, 2011 5:32 pm

The ETD can (and in many cases will) alarm on the shoes of someone that just walked across a newly fertilized lawn.

SATTSO Sep 20, 2011 6:43 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 17140759)
Your response is just more TSA bs. Etd does alarm on components in handcreams.

If there is an alarm a grope down is likely.

Oh, please, pay attention to what you say and what I said. You said if the person had had any hand lotion on their hands they would have most likely alarmed. That is simply not true.

As example that what you have said is not true, I have ETD test the hands of many/most passengers on an x-ray lane, easily testing over 50 passengers each time, often without alarms. How many of those people have used lotions, shook hands with people that have used lotions, and so on? More than likely a good deal of them. Oh, the ETD has registered specific chemicals, but as I have stated, usually I have not received an alarm.

And I NEVER said ETD does not alarm on "components in handcreams".

Your answers to the OP are misleading, inaccurate, and show how little you know about how ETDs work.


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