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Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 26233691)
Perfect, that's what I was looking for. This shows that TSA is intentionally working to fight human trafficking.
The next step will be to establish that they are spending money doing this, and that Congress did not apportion money for this purpose. If those two things can be proven, there could be a Misappropriation Act case. Plausible doesn't mean valid or rational. It simply means something that is believable. Since at many checkpoints they ask everyone to state their name (not just children or people traveling with someone else), it's unlikely that they are specifically looking for victims of smuggling. Do you think TSA screeners should engage travelers in pursuit of human trafficking? |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 26233691)
Plausible doesn't mean valid or rational. It simply means something that is believable. Since at many checkpoints they ask everyone to state their name (not just children or people traveling with someone else), it's unlikely that they are specifically looking for victims of smuggling.
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Originally Posted by BSBD
(Post 26234208)
Thanks, but I didn't ask for a definition of the word plausible. I asked you to list some of the "many plausible reasons" for asking travelers to state their names.
2. To look for signs of nervousness, which may indicate they are trying to sneak something onto the plane. 3. To force TDCs to check documents more carefully, since some of them have a habit of not paying attention. 4. To detect passengers that are too intoxicated to fly. Before you all start telling me how absurd these reasons are, let me say that I agree with you. They are all fairly easy to circumvent, if you know what you're doing. But that is not the point. The point is that there are several plausible reasons why TSA might ask people for their names, and therefore the fact that they are doing so does not necessarily indicate that they are looking for human trafficking/smuggling victims. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 26234544)
1. To see if they hesitate before answering, which may indicate that they are using someone else's boarding pass and ID.
2. To look for signs of nervousness, which may indicate they are trying to sneak something onto the plane. 3. To force TDCs to check documents more carefully, since some of them have a habit of not paying attention. 4. To detect passengers that are too intoxicated to fly. Before you all start telling me how absurd these reasons are, let me say that I agree with you. They are all fairly easy to circumvent, if you know what you're doing. But that is not the point. The point is that there are several plausible reasons why TSA might ask people for their names, and therefore the fact that they are doing so does not necessarily indicate that they are looking for human trafficking/smuggling victims. Gosh TSA's duties continue to expand. |
Originally Posted by cbn42
(Post 26234544)
1. To see if they hesitate before answering, which may indicate that they are using someone else's boarding pass and ID.
2. To look for signs of nervousness, which may indicate they are trying to sneak something onto the plane. 3. To force TDCs to check documents more carefully, since some of them have a habit of not paying attention. 4. To detect passengers that are too intoxicated to fly. Before you all start telling me how absurd these reasons are, let me say that I agree with you. They are all fairly easy to circumvent, if you know what you're doing. But that is not the point. The point is that there are several plausible reasons why TSA might ask people for their names, and therefore the fact that they are doing so does not necessarily indicate that they are looking for human trafficking/smuggling victims. Of course, we need to keep telling TSA that: 1. If someone hesitates before answering, this may indicate that the question was so monumentally stupid and unexpected that they are taken aback somewhat. 2. Signs of nervousness may indicate that a person is nervous about flying. 3. Won't work, but definitely, many of them pay little attention to their jobs. 4. Not against the law, nor is it TSA's responsibility to do anything regarding drug or alcohol enforcement - as I understand it, it is the carrier's responsibility to deny boarding to anyone who appears intoxicated enough to pose a threat the the other passengers. |
Originally Posted by WillCAD
(Post 26234645)
4. Not against the law, nor is it TSA's responsibility to do anything regarding drug or alcohol enforcement - as I understand it, it is the carrier's responsibility to deny boarding to anyone who appears intoxicated enough to pose a threat the the other passengers.
...and certain TSA employees do have an obligation to bring suspected violations of (certain) law to the attention of the appropriate enforcement agency. The carriers ALSO have a duty not board a passenger that appears intoxicated. Most of the funniest episodes of that WN reality show "Airline" centered around intoxicated pax. |
Originally Posted by petaluma1
(Post 26228254)
"TSA will also continue to work with our federal partners to end human trafficking and smuggling alongside the Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Blue Campaign, a program that combats these crimes against humanity.”
http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/...ople-us/nZwrM/ |
Originally Posted by WillCAD
(Post 26234645)
Yeah, sadly I agree with you - it is completely plausible that TSA truly believes that these trumped up, BS reasons for playing the name game at the c/p are totally legit.
Of course, we need to keep telling TSA that: 1. If someone hesitates before answering, this may indicate that the question was so monumentally stupid and unexpected that they are taken aback somewhat. |
Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
(Post 26241107)
I re-read the article. It about a TSA clerk who was arrested for smuggling people into the U.S..
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From the 2008 Screening Management SOP:
B. If a child alerts a TSA employee in any manner seeking help because they indicate that they are being kidnapped or otherwise held against their will by the adult they are with, the TSA employee must notify his or her supervisor immediately and an LEO, if available. 1) Maintain surveillance of the child. TSOs must not leave the screening checkpoint area without the consent of the STSO. 2) If an LEO is not immediately available and contact is about to be lost with the child who has specifically requested help, TSA employees may take reasonable action to ensure the safety of the child until law enforcement arrives. |
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 26265848)
From the 2008 Screening Management SOP:
B. If a child alerts a TSA employee in any manner seeking help because they indicate that they are being kidnapped or otherwise held against their will by the adult they are with, the TSA employee must notify his or her supervisor immediately and an LEO, if available. 1) Maintain surveillance of the child. TSOs must not leave the screening checkpoint area without the consent of the STSO. 2) If an LEO is not immediately available and contact is about to be lost with the child who has specifically requested help, TSA employees may take reasonable action to ensure the safety of the child until law enforcement arrives. |
Originally Posted by petaluma1
(Post 26265877)
So by questioning the child, the screener violated TSA SOP. Why am I not surprised?
Upon receipt of AMBER ALERT information from TSA management, STSOs must take the following actions: A. Incorporate AMBER ALERT information (descriptions, photographs) into the required daily briefing for TSOs until the AMBER ALERT event is terminated. B. Post AMBER ALERT information in the screening checkpoint logbook. Remove the information upon AMBER ALERT termination. C. Encourage TSOs to be alert for individuals meeting the description of the abductee or suspect to the extent that it does not interfere with primary screening duties. D. Maintain AMBER ALERT signage at the screening checkpoint if directed by local TSA management. E. Contact an LEO immediately if the STSO, LTSO, or a TSO believes he or she has observed a person that fits the description of the abductee or suspect. 1) If an LEO is not available to immediately address the situation (for example, the LEO is off-site), the senior TSA employee who is on-site must immediately be contacted. 2) The senior TSA employee must immediately notify an aircraft operator representative if, in the senior TSA employee’s opinion, a flight departure delay could assist law enforcement in pursuing a suspect and/or victim. 3A-4. TSA EMPLOYEE RESPONSIBILITIES A. When a TSA employee observes someone whom they believe to be the abducted or missing child, the TSA employee must notify his or her supervisor immediately and an LEO, if available. 1) Attempt to keep the child and/or suspect in view until an LEO can intercede and determine if the child and/or suspect is in fact the target of the AMBER ALERT. TSA employees may not detain or restrain a suspect under these circumstances. 2) If surveillance of the child and/or suspect is interrupted before law enforcement has arrived on the scene (for example, the subject leaves the screening checkpoint area, terminal, or airport and enters a vehicle or bus at the airport), document as much information as possible. a. Useful information includes: license plate number on the vehicle, description of the vehicle, direction of travel, time observed, description of what the child and/or suspect was wearing, etc. Pass this information on to a law enforcement official when they arrive. b. TSOs must not leave the screening checkpoint area in an effort to pursue or gather information regarding the presumed abductee and/or suspect unless directed to do so by the STSO. |
This junk is going on at ORD, and it's hitting in sexist and racist ways.
The TSA characters ask some kids to say their name and then ask the kids who the person is that is accompanying them. They do this more often when the accompanying adults are men and when the accompanying children may appear to be of a different ethnic mix than one or both of the accompanying adult/adults. The TSA once again demonstrates that racism and sexism is a factor in the pseudo law enforcement dragnet operated by the TSA at the screening checkpoints. It can be really interesting to track what goes on at airport screening checkpoints to see what kind of behavior TSA engages in with passengers. But the TSA doesn't want the public to know how it's misbehaving by doing this kind of stuff; and if it tried to measure its own practices, then it would risk exposing its ways to even more criticism in light of its interest to avoid being held accountable for its results and disparate impact. |
Originally Posted by GUWonder
(Post 27421581)
This junk is going on at ORD, and it's hitting in sexist and racist ways.
The TSA characters ask some kids to say their name and then ask the kids who the person is that is accompanying them. They do this more often when the accompanying adults are men and when the accompanying children may appear to be of a different ethnic mix than one or both of the accompanying adult/adults. The TSA once again demonstrates that racism and sexism is a factor in the pseudo law enforcement dragnet operated by the TSA at the screening checkpoints. It can be really interesting to track what goes on at airport screening checkpoints to see what kind of behavior TSA engages in with passengers. But the TSA doesn't want the public to know how it's misbehaving by doing this kind of stuff; and if it tried to measure its own practices, then it would risk exposing its ways to even more criticism in light of its interest to avoid being held accountable for its results and disparate impact. It seems that would not go well with TSA. I am glad my kids are above 18. But my grandkids not. And they dont speak english or would speak to a stranger. |
Originally Posted by tanja
(Post 27423050)
When my kids were younger I told them not to talk to strangers. Not to answer ANY questions to anybody.
It seems that would not go well with TSA. I am glad my kids are above 18. But my grandkids not. And they dont speak english or would speak to a stranger. One of the kids being asked this stuff at ORD had come off my flight from Europe and was a Swedish kid on fall vacation, so perhaps "stranger danger" isn't as strong a concept there. But then again talking to strangers isn't as casual there as it is in the US, at least for adults. Children really shouldn't be encouraged to be government informants on their parents as much as they should be encouraged to practice stranger danger. This aspect of the TSA mentality of "see something, say something" really is not all that useful and is rather sociopathic. Welcome to what kind of stuff we get from the TSA supposedly doing the TDC/travel document check. |
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