In the even more highly unlikely scenario that I was a member of the jury in this case, nobody would have to worry as the only words I'd know how to say from day one would be "not guilty".

Unless one is actually carrying a bomb to place aboard a plane, I'm willing to give pretty much everybody a free pass for things that TSA accuses them of doing. That includes lying to them, hurting their feelings with snide remarks, "assaulting" them by waiting until they're doing your pat-down to pass gas, and probably even assaulting them for real.

Here's a question... If one plans to mispronounce your name, why not just reply to the question by saying something like "We're going to have a problem. I don't believe that you can compel me to answer this question truthfully, and as such I refuse to do so. This does not constitute refusal to submit for screening to ensure that I am not carrying any WEI." If you do this, you're telling the truth to them, annoying them, and also indicating your willingness to comply with their screening procedures.

The only saving grace so far is that of the 37 comments not a single one has been "anything for security" based. Hopefully the tables are turning, turning, turning. I can think of a few million dollars I could immediately cut out of the federal budget!

I wonder if these "investigators" are college educated, specially trained, or the run of the mill GED with a couple days instruction.
Bet it starts out as the former, then slowly becomes the latter.

Boston and other test markets, show you're not cattle by not participating.
Whisper one word, "laryngitis".

Or Richard Hertz, perhaps :D. Maybe when you tell them, they'll be gentle on the grope.

That might be classified as "lying" to a federal official, which some on here would be oh-so-quick to point out to be "wrong, wrong, wrong - nanny, nanny, boo, boo".

The far better approach?
1) Wear sunglasses
2) Put earbuds in your ears and pretend you're listening to an iPod
3) Ignore anyone who speaks to you
4) If tapped on the shoulder or something similar, ignore them
5) If tapped again, make a scene - demand the police to come and press battery charges (you were touched without your permission and against your will - I imagine there would have to be something to cover that)

Get the person's name as well. When you return home, go to small claims court and file a lawsuit against him/her. It's cheap to do this, and will cause the TSA employee to take a day off work to show up (or risk default judgment).

We can create problems for TSA by performing actions that increase turnover and make it harder for them to recruit quality people. If turnover is at 20% now, we should try to push it to 25% by the end of the year or middle of next year. Then push it higher than that. It will be nearly impossible to maintain quality in an organization whose workforce completely changes every 3-4 years, not to mention all the costs associated with that turnover. We should do our best to make turnover the #1 issue on Pistole's problem list.

I'm guessing that's because, to this point, even with BDO's, conversation was not a requirement for screening (yet I could be guessing wrong!). I'm hearing that it might be coming, and to refuse to answer if it's raining or not, could be cause for refusal of entry to the sterile area.

Right now you can be refused entry airside only if you decline or do not pass screening, although that has been arbitrarily expanded to include the papers scrutineer as part of the process.

Yes, the TSA could change their secret rules, but since their workers cannot physically remove you from the pre-TDC line just stand your ground and wait for a LEO. Then sue the pants off everyone involved.

National Make Fun of The SPOTNik Day?
 

I was thinking that, if enough of us annoyed the ID Checker SPOTNik by the various methods we've been writing about, that many, if not all of us will be sent to a retaliatory secondary. The gropings will be done by the same clerks who do the opt-out gropings. This could have a far greater effect than opt-out day when the TSA simply shut down the Cancer Machines.

How about "National Make Fun of The SPOTNik Day?

First, the only reason this program got funding is because they came up with a cool acronym which seems to over-impress a lot of Washington types.

Any reasonably decent profiler is already or will be employed by better agencies like the FBI, CBP proper or even NYPD. A 5-day program is laughable.

I'll just say it, a college degree is no longer a significant indicator of one's abilities, especially in my profession.

I don't think anyone needs to be confrontational in this situation since the process, and the person, will probably be easily frustrated by a little TMI.

My plan:

- “Where have you been?”
- [chuckle] "My [wife|husband] asks me that all the time, I swear, I was just playing golf. You probably don't believe me either but some courses are lit at night and if you use enough sunscreen, you don't show anything at all. And really, I know they say 2 hours before departure but that's an awful long time to sit at an airport."

- “Do you have a business card?”
- [blank ponderous stare] [begin rummaging through my carry-on] "I think so, I mean I'm supposed to. They keep sending me new ones but I always forget them." [methodically searching various compartments] "This is embarrassing, I'm glad I'm not traveling with the boss today. I really thought I grabbed some new ones last week..." [double check the obvious locations]

- “Where are you traveling?”
- "Now or today? I think I'm connecting but it's different every week. What was last week? Oh, where did I get dinner, then I'll remember where it was. Dang it, it's right there on the boarding pass. Which one did I give you? I have the other one here somewhere. Oh, here it is, %LAX%, but I'm actually going somewhere nearby, don't really remember where, there are so many little towns. Are you from that area? What's there to do?"

At which point I'll ask for a supervisor and LEO. Eventually, I will be allowed into the secure area - without playing their silly game. At which point I will make very sure the appropriate officials in my department and DHS are made aware of how I was treated by TSA personnel acting outside the scope of their authority.

From The Boston Globe:

"Questioning will take place at a separate podium after a traveler’s documents have been checked, and those identified for more screening will be sent to a third station."

So an actual questioning checkpoint after the TDC. I suspect this procedure will be a monumental failure and result in many, many innocent travelers being sent to the "third station" where who knows what happens to you.

The more travelers who go to the "third station" the better as that means more people will be subjected to the assault that is call a pat down and more people will be angry.

Every time the TSA injects another level of screening into the pot, more passengers get fed up with the whole charade. So perhaps this is a good thing.

I still wants to know what happens to the furriners who cannot speak English or who do not understand American English. I do listen to CarTalk when I am in the US, but if this is being tested at BOS, I fear that many English speakers may have challenges understanding not only American English but local area accents.

:rolleyes:

Oh, great, now they're adding two more 'layers'.

Let me count the layers:
-secure flight
-entry to checkpoint (am I attempting to enter the right line?)
-TDC - blacklight, squiggles, say my name
-second BP/ID check (only at some airports currently)
-BDO conversation
-'extra screening as needed'
- 'line director' - WTMD or NoS
- goods on belt, NoS scan
- grope because NoS scan operator is incompetent or asleep
- bag check
- BDO conversation starting at food court, continuing into bathroom stalls
- gate ID and bag check

Escalated retaliatory screening now has a formalized process?

Is it me, or does this sound like it's going to be modeled after the passport control stations on international arrivals? Questions like where did you come from, where are you going, where are you staying, what did you do, did you meet anyone, etc. In that case, I'm hosed, given my 95% hit rate on border secondaries (one actually said that they knew I wasn't a threat, there was an open secondary line, and I was just there long enough for them to look busy).

So TSA gets the badge idea from LEOs, and the questioning booth from CBP?

(shakes head) I wonder how long before the 'exit' gropes start?

I wonder if the BDOs will get their own little podiums. I wonder how much the taxpayers are already paying for these fancy little podiums.

I thought someone said there was a budget crisis in this country?

I knew there was a reason I fly out of the B terminal. As much as I like Fuddruckers, my time in the A terminal is becoming less and less.

Rumor has it that Chertoff has an interest in a podium company.

Mike

Flew out of HOU yesterday and I was asked my name. I said I preferred not to say it out loud for safety reasons and would be happy to write it out for him. I was informed that if I didn't say it out loud I would not be allowed to proceed. I cupped my hands around my mouth and whispered my first name.

He said if I didn't tell him my full name I would not be allowed to pass. The real absurdity of this is that my first name is distinctive, much more so than my last name. I seriously doubt he would have said my name correctly if he read it out loud. Anyone with a pea-sized brain should be able to see that the name on the BP matched the ID, which matched the first name I gave him. That should have been more than enough.

Finally he asked my destination. By then I was getting really irritated. I said I was going to work. He said again - very rudely - if you don't cooperate you are not going anywhere today. I said I am going to Alabama. He said where in Alabama. I said my destination has multiple cities and I couldn't answer his question. I was getting so mad at that point I was ready to punch someone.

WHEN WILL THIS END??????? :mad:

As a transplanted Bostonian, I take the lattah ;)

So what would have happened had you not said your name, and you refused to move from the podium? Would the TDC have called over a cop? If the cop arrested you, what would have been the charge? Someone with the time and money for a legal fight seriously needs to test this "do you want to fly" nonsense.

(bolding mine): interfering with the screening process.

If you try to discuss with the LEO and it is an airport where the LEOs take direction from TSOs, then you'll probably be told to leave. If you continute to try to discuss the issue, you will be arrested for public disturbance or failing to follow an LEO's orders.

Read up on Phil Mocek.

Then the scary thing is, that if the LEO does take orders from the TSOs, then the the TSA's procedures are completely unaccountable to any standards of legality or constitutionality. The TSO could make up any criteria for satisfying the screening process, and if a passenger does not comply, he is charged with interfering with the process. It seems that no one in Congress is willing to take on the TSA, and therefore the only way to make any headway would be to get arrested and hope for a sympathetic jury, not one composed of the "anything for security" types.

Exactly. This is why it is particularly scary that Pistole wants to arm some TSOs and designate them LEOs (TEOs)? I think it is an attempt to take the matter completely out of the hands of civil authorities.

An armed 'TEO' force at the airport leaves TSA completely out-of-control. At least now, at some airports, the LEOs can provide a voice of reason and can de-escalate a situation (something completely lacking from TSA training). If Pistole has his way, TSA will be able to arrest and detain pax without the help of an LEO - and probably without being bound by the same restrictions that apply to LEOs (search, seizure of belongings, reading of rights, constitutional protections, etc.)

I have many friends that ask me if I hate the TSA so much, why do I continue to fly. My answer is always the same... I have to fly in order to do my job.

The day that *this happens is the day I will be on the company website hoping there is a land-based opening.

Technicality, but I think "interference with the screening process" is a civil (or maybe administrative) offense that can only be judged in a Coast-Guard kangaroo court, not a criminal court, and can carry no penalty worse than a fine. I don't think it is a crime that can result in arrest.

That explains why passengers who are arrested by LEOs at the direction of TSA (e.g., Phil Mocek, Andrea Abbott) are charged with disorderly conduct and/or other contempt-of-cop charges. In most of these cases, it seems the TSA and/or LEOs work together to egg on the passenger and elicit a response that can be used to justify an arrest. That's certainly what both the Mocek recordings and Abbott video indicate to me.

I hope this stupid questioning ends up in the courts very quickly with cases of people being denied access to the aircraft for refusal to answer or play along. If it gets struck down, great. If not, I need to start looking for a new country.

It could, however, create a situation in which the passenger is requested to leave the checkpoint ... and if they refuse to do so, then become liable to a charge of trespassing.

That works, too.

Start looking. Let us know which you choose, there don't seem to be many candidates left :( .

Not much doubt in my mind about your second paragraph. When the TSA workers realized there was a small but increasing number of passengers who decided not to take their 'administrative' crap, they turned to the oh-so-willing airport PDs to do their dirty work.

NO.

I won't compromise.

I think i'll move to Pishill (pronounced as if two words, first ending in ss).

I love it when the TSOs here start crowing so loudly about how great the TSA is. Every hen in the zip code gets horny.

Didn't you know the attitude toward TSA has changed in the airports?

I hear people at BOS arrive at the airport extra early now just to throw rose petals on the floor at their feet while they walk from the airport entrance to the checkpoints. :D

They're terrified of what'll happen when the TSA is dismantled, as they will have nowhere to go for work - being entirely unqualified for anything else.

Here is an interesting thought. The courts have held up that what the TSA is doing an administrative search. Now I take the word search literally to mean to look, inspect, seek out something physical. To date all of their actions have been towards that.

Now we have administrative interrogations. Which is something completely different. Given that TSA just got spanked for not going through the rule making process on AIT it would seem to me that one could similarly argue that the implementation of administrative interrogations which really changes the screening process would be even better fodder for the courts and rule making, especially if one is being denied access to the sterile area because they refused to answer any of their questions. At least with the AIT one had an option of the patdown.

I should add that if TSA could roll out a program that I thought was truly being implemented with some fore thought I might be more supportive. I have very serious doubts that a week of training is truly sufficient to make someone proficient.

First the TSA would have to hire some personnel who weren't paranoid reactionary panic-monkeys, and had people skills.

I simply don't see that happening. Ever.

"Where are you going?"
 

My home airport is TLH, and every single flight I have _ever_ taken out of TLH has involved a transfer at either ATL or CLT--a quick check on TLH's online departure board shows, among the next 10 departures (across 6 hours; not a very busy airport), 5 to ATL, 2 each to CLT and TPA, and 1 to DFW.

If a TDC at TLH asks me where I'm going, I'll have no problem telling them where I'm going: "Charlotte!". Just like about one-fifth of all the passengers going through the TDC. :-)

You are clearly overestimating the amount of thought that the TSA put into this program before initiating it. My sincere belief is that TSA "management" decided to implement the idea after someone wrote it on the back of a Chipotle napkin and pinned it to the suggestion board in the break room.

Mike

You hit the nail on the head. It's quite obvious that some are truly concerned about the TSA's future.

Taco Bell maybe...........but Chipotle is too high class for TSA, considering that they all came from Mickey D's.

I'm in. Wouldn't miss it! ^^^

Bruce

I'm in as well.