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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Lack of security entering Schengen (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1236041-lack-security-entering-schengen.html)

Palal Jul 12, 2011 7:57 am

It also depends on the country of your passport. Passports from "first world" countries don't get hassled. Also, remember, that local police in many places in Europe have the authority to stop and ask you for your papers. If not everything is in order you might have problems.

Majuki Jul 12, 2011 8:07 am

While I agree there is little risk from a security perspective, the lax approach to entering the Schengen Area in some countries such as Italy have caused countries such as Denmark to be a bit more protective of their borders. Here is a BBC article, one of many on the subject.

yyzvoyageur Jul 12, 2011 8:13 am


Originally Posted by Sjoerd (Post 16713379)
I am glad that some immigration officers still use common sense and know that 99.99999% of travellers pose no risk and should be welcomed with open arms. You probably have a passport from a relatively rich country whose citizens are not often engaging in terrorist or other illegal activities abroad.

It would still be prudent to check that the person standing there is the person for whom the passport was issued.

Sjoerd Jul 12, 2011 8:14 am


Originally Posted by Majuki (Post 16713770)
While I agree there is little risk from a security perspective, the lax approach to entering the Schengen Area in some countries such as Italy have caused countries such as Denmark to be a bit more protective of their borders. Here is a BBC article, one of many on the subject.

Denmark's border controls have little or nothing to do with "lax approach to entering the Schengen area" at normal airport immigration checkpoints, and everything with fear of brown people who are illegally entering Schengen via sea or land.

Sjoerd Jul 12, 2011 8:16 am


Originally Posted by yyzvoyageur (Post 16713801)
It would still be prudent to check that the person standing there is the person for whom the passport was issued.

Normally this has already been done at least once, and in many cases several times, by airline staff, airport officials and/or immigration officers in the country of departure.

yyzvoyageur Jul 12, 2011 8:33 am


Originally Posted by Sjoerd (Post 16713819)
Normally this has already been done at least once, and in many cases several times, by airline staff, airport officials and/or immigration officers in the country of departure.

I'm an immigration officer. We find fraudulent documents all the time. Sometimes airport officials are even involved in facilitating those frauds.

CX HK Jul 12, 2011 8:35 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 16713590)
I think you worry too much. Way too much.

It might be an immigration issue, but it has nothing at all to do with security.

I wasn't really worrying; I was merely interested with what I saw, and this is not something I am used to. I travel most frequently to the United States, and I can guarantee you that the exact opposite happens. I am questioned, fingerprinted, the officer flips through my passport, and checks my visa before I am admitted*.

*= I am not complaining about the procedures, which is normal. Most of the officers I have met are respectful and the entire ordeal takes less than five minutes.


Originally Posted by Palal (Post 16713714)
It also depends on the country of your passport. Passports from "first world" countries don't get hassled. Also, remember, that local police in many places in Europe have the authority to stop and ask you for your papers. If not everything is in order you might have problems.

I was using a Hong Kong passport; not sure what standing it has with European officers, but hopefully a good one. Unfortunately, it is not good enough for the US yet and the HK passport is not included in the VWP.

SFOSpiff Jul 12, 2011 8:45 am


Originally Posted by CX HK (Post 16713924)
I was using a Hong Kong passport; not sure what standing it has with European officers, but hopefully a good one. Unfortunately, it is not good enough for the US yet

A US passport isn't good enough for the US any more (see the thread about asking for extra ID)

:eek:

B747-437B Jul 12, 2011 8:54 am


Originally Posted by VelvetJones (Post 16713574)
CDG was more ridged, they actually looked through my passport and asked me what I was doing there.

CDG stamped my recently expired/cancelled passport last month without even looking at the front page (cancelled passport was attached behind the current passport). The guy was on his phone, so he just flicked open a random page and stamped without looking.

In the past, I've actually had to go hunting for immigration officers at CDG after jumpseating in on a Daallo Airlines flight from London to Djibouti (that made a stop to pick up passengers in Paris) when they didn't expect any arriving passengers. The doors to France were literally left open to stroll through!

Sjoerd Jul 12, 2011 8:59 am


Originally Posted by B747-437B (Post 16714032)
The doors to France were literally left open to stroll through!

Try finding an immigration officer when arriving by ferry from the UK. Most of the time, the doors to France are wide open. ^

a_random_guy Jul 12, 2011 9:07 am

Really, this is the way it ought to be. Terrorism is not a threat - really, it's not. You are far more likely to die in a traffic accident. Airport security should be kept to an absolute minimum, customs between friendly countries should be only a formality.

As other posters have pointed out, most illegal immigrants attempt to sneak in via surface transport - at the moment, thousands of people are coming by sea from Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.

yyzvoyageur Jul 12, 2011 10:51 am


Originally Posted by a_random_guy (Post 16714095)
Really, this is the way it ought to be. Terrorism is not a threat - really, it's not. You are far more likely to die in a traffic accident. Airport security should be kept to an absolute minimum, customs between friendly countries should be only a formality.

As other posters have pointed out, most illegal immigrants attempt to sneak in via surface transport - at the moment, thousands of people are coming by sea from Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.

Terrorism is not an immigration officer's primary concern—compliance with immigration legislation is.

Cometintintin Jul 12, 2011 11:51 am


Originally Posted by CX HK (Post 16712748)
The last time I visited a Schengen country was in 2009, when I arrived in Geneva in Switzerland for a vacation (one of the most beautiful countries, by the way). I hold a non-EU passport, and the immigration officer asked me a few questions before stamping my passport and waving me through.

Switzerland is not a Schengen country. That said, I agree that migration process in airports are heavily supported by airline check in procedures, so anyone coming in a plane, had to have a minimum of “legal” documents as to get to that point. Migration officers in airports are aware of that and are more relaxed.

Now, Schengen by itself is full of loopholes. You can take a plane from London to Gibraltar, land and walk into Spain looking like a tourist who is coming back from a day in the rock, and chances are you will not be asked for any type of document. But hell, you can also take a boat from Africa and land in Italy (or Greece) and you are in…

It’s like crossing the river from Mexico to the US… There is always a way to come in, and believe me most of the time its nor through airports, since you need documents at the point of origin to board.


Every country will be more careful with different “possible” immigrants. For example, now in Spain, if you hold a Latin American passport, they will reinforce the rule that you need a return ticket, proof of economic solvency, a hotel reservation, and if they are not satisfied, they could deny your entry, but its because there is always a percentage of “tourists” that turn into illegal immigrants, and if they speak Spanish and come from a less developed country, they are more likely to be…

Entering Spain with a US passport, is a piece of cake, no need to show anything, if an American wanted to become an illegal immigrant, it would be more likely to attempt the UK, and not Spain, so they are more relaxed…

It’s a matter of what they are after. If they are after illegal immigration of if they are after terrorism, ad not all countries feel the heat of terrorism, so they are more concerned with illegal immigration.

Now, if you are a Latin American with the intention of staying in Spain, the best way around it is flying to Madrid via Paris. That way you will face French immigration agents that as soon as they see you are leaving France (ticket to Madrid) they stamp and let you through, Its not their problem, it’s the Spaniards problem… Of course, if you come from a French speaking African country, you will better have a return ticket, money and credit cards, a hotel reservation and look clean and affluent…

jms_uk Jul 12, 2011 12:28 pm


Originally Posted by Cometintintin (Post 16715090)
Switzerland is not a Schengen country.

snip

It has been since December 2008.

Sjoerd Jul 12, 2011 1:14 pm


Originally Posted by Cometintintin (Post 16715090)
Now, if you are a Latin American with the intention of staying in Spain, the best way around it is flying to Madrid via Paris. That way you will face French immigration agents that as soon as they see you are leaving France (ticket to Madrid) they stamp and let you through, Its not their problem, it’s the Spaniards problem…

Schiphol Amsterdam Airport has Spanish immigration officers stationed there who work mostly at the times that the KLM flights from Quito, Guayaquil, Lima, Panama and Mexico arrive at AMS.


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