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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   "You WILL apologize...." (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1196228-you-will-apologize.html)

PhlyingRPh Mar 19, 2011 10:03 pm


Originally Posted by SilentCat (Post 16066792)
Yes, PhlyingRPh, brand new. I'm also newly United Elite

In addition to the welcome, congratulations also appear to be in order, on becoming an Elite on United.

bdschobel Mar 19, 2011 10:28 pm


Originally Posted by SilentCat (Post 16066516)
Maybe you'll call me naive, but if you had gone in with a better attitude, things might have gone smoother for you. A positive mindset goes a long way. You expected a battle and you got what you wanted. I agree that the TSA are incompetent bullies, and the woman with the name issues sounds like a nut job, but you engaged first when you ridiculed the older woman examining your passport. It was just "a little longer" than you expected, so why be so impatient and ask a purposefully sarcastic question? Could it be, in your negative looking-for-a-fight mindset, that you incorrectly assumed she was being slow for the express purpose of holding you up? Maybe she's just old and slow. You could've taken our passport without saying anything and gone on your merry way.

No doubt about it. I could have let her study my passport for as long as she liked, and I was not in a hurry. I had 4 hours until my flight and 2 hours until the flight I wanted to stand by for. Really, I was trying to help her to understand why checking IDs is silly. I was not angry or impatient about anything. I figured if I'm going to have to stand there, I might as well have a meaningful conversation, too.

I readily admit that I approach every encounter with the TSA ready, willing and able to fight. I learned from experience that you better be ready because fights happen all too often with thugs and bullies.

In my initial post (and the title of this thread), I focused on the demand for an apology because that struck me as the most inappropriate event of the whole encounter -- even worse than the retaliation or turning my bag upside-down for no reason. The notion that one person -- with some low level of authority -- can compel another to mouth certain words against his or her will is about as offensive as you can get. It carries undertones of slavery. I'm not Venecia's slave, and I'll be damned if I'm going to follow her orders to say what she demands, especially when I think the opposite. No way. Not in this lifetime.

Bruce

PhlyingRPh Mar 19, 2011 10:57 pm


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 16066985)
No doubt about it. I could have let her study my passport for as long as she liked, and I was not in a hurry. I had 4 hours until my flight and 2 hours until the flight I wanted to stand by for. Really, I was trying to help her to understand why checking IDs is silly. I was not angry or impatient about anything. I figured if I'm going to have to stand there, I might as well have a meaningful conversation, too.

I readily admit that I approach every encounter with the TSA ready, willing and able to fight. I learned from experience that you better be ready because fights happen all too often with thugs and bullies.

In my initial post (and the title of this thread), I focused on the demand for an apology because that struck me as the most inappropriate event of the whole encounter -- even worse than the retaliation or turning my bag upside-down for no reason. The notion that one person -- with some low level of authority -- can compel another to mouth certain words against his or her will is about as offensive as you can get. It carries undertones of slavery. I'm not Venecia's slave, and I'll be damned if I'm going to follow her orders to say what she demands, especially when I think the opposite. No way. Not in this lifetime.

Bruce

^

I agree, from experience that fights with TSO's and others in uniform can break out at any time and for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than they get off by ordering other people around. Sometimes they pick the wrong person.

chugger1 Mar 20, 2011 6:02 am


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 16066985)
No doubt about it. I could have let her study my passport for as long as she liked, and I was not in a hurry. I had 4 hours until my flight and 2 hours until the flight I wanted to stand by for. Really, I was trying to help her to understand why checking IDs is silly. I was not angry or impatient about anything. I figured if I'm going to have to stand there, I might as well have a meaningful conversation, too.

I readily admit that I approach every encounter with the TSA ready, willing and able to fight. I learned from experience that you better be ready because fights happen all too often with thugs and bullies.

In my initial post (and the title of this thread), I focused on the demand for an apology because that struck me as the most inappropriate event of the whole encounter -- even worse than the retaliation or turning my bag upside-down for no reason. The notion that one person -- with some low level of authority -- can compel another to mouth certain words against his or her will is about as offensive as you can get. It carries undertones of slavery. I'm not Venecia's slave, and I'll be damned if I'm going to follow her orders to say what she demands, especially when I think the opposite. No way. Not in this lifetime.

Bruce

That's awesome.

Tom M. Mar 20, 2011 7:32 am


Originally Posted by SilentCat (Post 16066516)
Maybe you'll call me naive, but if you had gone in with a better attitude, things might have gone smoother for you. A positive mindset goes a long way. You expected a battle and you got what you wanted. I agree that the TSA are incompetent bullies, and the woman with the name issues sounds like a nut job,.....

Another way to look at this situation is to realize how easily a group of TSO's at a checkpoint can be diverted from their primary mission.

If these TSO's were professional, they would have not taken the actions they did. Not necessarily because of courtesy to the OP, but based solely on security reasons. Resources and attention were diverted to a person who wasn't a threat. If the OP had been working as part of a team, the others would have possibly had an easier time getting something through the checkpoint.

9Benua Mar 20, 2011 7:42 am

This is what you get when you give a bunch of burger flippers a badge.

Caradoc Mar 20, 2011 7:44 am


Originally Posted by 9Benua (Post 16068025)
This is what you get when you give a bunch of burger flippers a badge.

That's hardly fair.

The TSA is what you get when you give badges to a bunch of people who aren't even qualified to be burger-flippers.

The ones who might have the technical skills to flip burgers all have attitude problems, and the ones who don't have attitude problems don't have any actual skills.

SDF_Traveler Mar 20, 2011 8:27 am


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 16066165)
Really? I have another great story for your entertainment.

Friday, March 18, about 8:00 am, Newark Airport, Terminal A, satellite 1 (United gates). I had a ticket on the noon flight to Chicago but planned to stand by for the 10 am flight instead. Either way, I had plenty of time and, as usual, was ready for yet another battle with the TSA. I got one!

Great Job, Bruce!

I hope you send in a complaint to EWR, but I'm sure it'll fall on deaf ears -- or file a complaint via the constituent services of a local congress-critter -- I did this once when a complaint fell on deaf ears and Senator McConnell's office did a great job handling it.

Now I have Senator Rand Paul's constituent services :)

SDF_T

bdschobel Mar 20, 2011 8:37 am

Please share my story with Sen. Paul. It will give him more anti-TSA ammunition.

Bruce

Xyzzy Mar 20, 2011 8:43 am


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 16068239)
Please share my story with Sen. Paul. It will give him more anti-TSA ammunition.

Bruce, we still need to make a date with our C:rolleyes:ngresscritter...

FriendlySkies Mar 20, 2011 8:43 am

Wow, just wow :td:

First off, Venecia sounds like a real bit@# :td: I think I would have contacted the LEO as soon as she started to go on her little power trip. Definitely needs to find a different line of work. Perhaps garbage collector?

I'd also send your story along to Rep. Chaffetz

ElizabethConley Mar 20, 2011 8:52 am


Originally Posted by FriendlySkies (Post 16068260)
Wow, just wow :td:

First off, Venecia sounds like a real bit@# :td: I think I would have contacted the LEO as soon as she started to go on her little power trip. Definitely needs to find a different line of work. Perhaps garbage collector?

I'd also send your story along to Rep. Chaffetz

I'd prefer not. There are several lady garbage collectors in my town. They're lovely people who go out of their way to do a good job. They have to handle those enormous trucks around our vehicles, and using the mechanical trash pail grabber with precision is a must. These ladies are very hard working. They are collecting the trash on our street a good ten minutes before their official "start time" of 7 AM. They've never harmed a car or any other private property. They often remove awkward objects they're technically not required to remove.

We compensate our sanitation workers handsomely, because they are very valuable members of our community.

I don't think Venecia is right for the job.

FriendlySkies Mar 20, 2011 8:53 am


Originally Posted by ElizabethConley (Post 16068299)
I'd prefer not. There are several lady garbage collectors in my town. They're lovely people who go out of their way to do a good job. They have to handle those enormous trucks around our vehicles, and using the mechanical trash pail grabber with precision is a must. These ladies are very hard working. They are collecting the trash on our street a good ten minutes before their official "start time" of 7 AM. They've never harmed a car or any other private property. They often remove awkward objects they're technically not required to remove.

We compensate our sanitation workers handsomely, because they are very valuable members of our community.

I don't think Venecia is right for the job.

Sewer Cleaner?

ElizabethConley Mar 20, 2011 8:56 am


Originally Posted by FriendlySkies (Post 16068302)
Sewer Cleaner?

Nope. Sorry. That's skilled labor, and requires diligence. Further, it's a responsible position. The equipment is very valuable.

Integrity is a must. Homeowners and Restaurant owners are always trying to bribe sewer cleaners to clear grease-clogged lines up from the street to the easy access clean-out fitting, sometimes as far as 100 feet under private property - a real no-no.

WindOfFreedom Mar 20, 2011 9:20 am


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 16068005)
Another way to look at this situation is to realize how easily a group of TSO's at a checkpoint can be diverted from their primary mission.

If these TSO's were professional, they would have not taken the actions they did. Not necessarily because of courtesy to the OP, but based solely on security reasons. Resources and attention were diverted to a person who wasn't a threat. If the OP had been working as part of a team, the others would have possibly had an easier time getting something through the checkpoint.

This is the best point of all.


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