Wow, just wow :td:

First off, Venecia sounds like a real bit@# :td: I think I would have contacted the LEO as soon as she started to go on her little power trip. Definitely needs to find a different line of work. Perhaps garbage collector?

I'd also send your story along to Rep. Chaffetz

I'd prefer not. There are several lady garbage collectors in my town. They're lovely people who go out of their way to do a good job. They have to handle those enormous trucks around our vehicles, and using the mechanical trash pail grabber with precision is a must. These ladies are very hard working. They are collecting the trash on our street a good ten minutes before their official "start time" of 7 AM. They've never harmed a car or any other private property. They often remove awkward objects they're technically not required to remove.

We compensate our sanitation workers handsomely, because they are very valuable members of our community.

I don't think Venecia is right for the job.

Sewer Cleaner?

Nope. Sorry. That's skilled labor, and requires diligence. Further, it's a responsible position. The equipment is very valuable.

Integrity is a must. Homeowners and Restaurant owners are always trying to bribe sewer cleaners to clear grease-clogged lines up from the street to the easy access clean-out fitting, sometimes as far as 100 feet under private property - a real no-no.

This is the best point of all.

It is really amazing how much TSA staff and resources were focused on me for the better part of an hour. It's like they had nothing else to do.

Bruce

This is what always baffles me about the TSA. If a big bad terrorist group wanted to sneak something through a checkpoint wouldn't one of the oldest tricks in the book be to send a world class a**hole through first, who would be sure to stir up a ruckus? The TSA has shown repeatedly that they'll swarm like bees on to a single passenger that dares to challenge them, while basically ignoring the other passengers in line. You would think this would be rule #1 in that extensive 3 week training program. "Do not get distracted. Maintain control and situational awareness". But that would require some semblance of an IQ.

I'm going to assume that you are NOT a DHS/TSA troll (because assuming otherwise with these first-time posters who jump in to defend the TSA has gotten me in...um..."trouble" in here before :p).

So, if you really are a new member and traveler who was just stating your opinion, I would urge you to go read more in this forum before you post a single word that appears to even remotely defend this disgusting agency. Read about how I was sexually assaulted, and physically assaulted until I cried out in pain. About how my elderly disabled mother was sexually assaulted, physically assaulted until she cried out in pain, forced to urinate on herself, and publicly humiliated.

Read about the young mother who was harassed for over an hour, publicly humiliated, and forced to dump her breast milk out (which she is allowed to transport by TSA's own rules). Read about the man in a wheelchair who was forced to hop on one leg, with no assistance, through the nude-o-scope, so he could be irradiated and viewed naked. Read about the woman who was ARRESTED and prosecuted for supposedly "assaulting" a TSO when she attempted to carry medically-necessary food for her elderly disabled mother on a plane (which she is allowed to do by TSA's own rules).

Read about the man who, in spite of his pleas to not touch it, had his urostomy bag popped, with no apology, then forced to fly covered with urine. Read about all the survivors of sexual assault who are being terrorized and traumatized by having strangers shove their hands forcibly up into their sex organs. Read about the many TSOs who appear to be on power trips and take disgusting actions on innocent civilians for no valid reason whatsoever - only because they can.

And those are just the few stories that pop into the top of my head. There are hundreds more.

Then come back in here and see if you want to defend a single action that the TSA takes. And question why we approach every encounter with the TSA with suspicion and disgust.

They deserve every bit of sarcasm that might come their way from travelers who are sick and tired of having our 4th Amendment rights horrifically violated every time we want to travel.

:rolleyes:

To state it from a different angle: this story shows a process and management failure.

A retaliatory search easily diverted the full attention of multiple employees. That's an attitude and training problem. When supervisors reinforced the flawed actions, that's a management problem. Throughout this event, no one recognized the true situation of petty screeners, an illegal search of papers, and failed security.

The TSA dismisses the GSA tests of gate security as being "too clever". It doesn't take very much cleverness at all to spot and exploit these gaping holes.

^^^^^
yes. and look up the word "Apparatchik" and its context. That is exactly what is going on throughout this 60,000 trogolodyte organization. Pure and simple.

Yes, Tom M. makes an excellent point. They were scarily easily diverted from their purpose.

OP- you're right, that point was lost on me: the title of your post was its main point. You focused on Name Lady demanding an apology, and claiming you couldn't leave without giving one. Like someone else said, that might be worth following up on. I still think asking the first woman, "Is it real?" was being sarcastic, and it's better to keep a positive attitude and let her slowness slide. Just like I let slide someone here implying I'm a troll. ;)
I haven't had a lot of exposure to TSA, yet, and I would hate to see the the day that I go into an airport looking to fight with a person checking my passport.

Thank you for the welcome and congratulations, PhlyingRPh.

Sometimes it's helpful to read a forum for a while before jumping in, just to gain some understanding of the culture. In this forum, there has been a distinct pattern of one-post trolls popping in to defend the TSA. They rarely return, because their position is indefensible. If you'd seen that as much as we have, you'd understand why we are suspicious of a new member who, in his/her first couple of posts, appears to take the TSA's side.

Once you do, you will undoubtedly understand why we feel such disgust at every single employee of this out-of-control, money-wasting, abusive agency. Once you've been assaulted, abused, illegally detained, and treated like a criminal, you too will walk up to every TSO with disgust and dripping sarcasm. You too will struggle to speak with civility to these offensive violators.

Every employee of the TSA is a part of this abuse. They all know what's going on, and what is being done to us. Yet they chose to continue to work there. They continue to remain in the employ of this agency that violates innocent travelers every single day.

I completely understand that you don't feel this way yet. Strap on a medical device and try getting through a TSA checkpoint a few times, and you will.

LeeAnne, I beg to differ. I feel as you do, but I think that SilentCat's initial perception, uncolored by prior posts, and others is useful. It provides a fresh, though perhaps naive perspective. As you state below, SilentCat, will likely see the agency and its agents for what it really is.

Agreed! Because there were several points in this incident where you could have de-escalated the whole thing, without ever needing to be confrontational.

I know that. At some level, I enjoy fighting with the TSA, if only because in so doing, I prevent them from picking on people perhaps less well equipped to engage. That's providing a valuable service.

If I had been at the airport the same day as LeeAnne's mother, perhaps the TSA thugs would have been preoccupied with me and left her mother alone. Who knows? I can dream, right?

Bruce

Nuts. Much like everyone at your agency who believes ID checking and genital groping is important to the security of the aircraft.

I think this has less to do with wanting to find the person checking your passport and more to do with the person doing something which in no way enhances aviation security. I doubt anyone here looks to get into a fight with Airline personnel or Customs and Border Protection, who, at various points during the process, have a legitimate reason to check a person's ID/Passport.

Any aviation security should be centered around WHAT makes it into the secure area and not WHO.

Lets face it people, if a known terrorist makes it to the TSA check point, the the national security apparatus has failed on a lot of levels. OTOH, if OBL himself were to walk through a check point, he should be fine to fly as long as he's been screened properly (ignoring for the fact that that is unlikely - this is just an attempt to reinforce a point).

I've made that same point many times, including to TSA staff. I would be unafraid to sit next to OBL himself on a plane if I knew that he was not carrying any weapons, explosives or incendiaries (WEI). In that case, he would be just another tall old man, not someone to fear.

Bruce

I've been making this point for many years, and I'm sure a number of us have employed what I like to call the strategic hissy fit in order to allow a colleague or loved one to get whatever they need to take through the checkpoint without any additional scrutiny. Two BDSchobels or PhlyingRPh's in full form, one behind the other at the same WTMD could pretty much cause a complete meltdown. (usually under a laptop in a grey tray works the best). Wait a minute, I'm obviously full of you know what. All they have to do is pull a "Freeze" on everybody and they are back in control.

Hello VelvetJones, you are obviously brand new to Flyertalk, so I just wanted to extend a very warm welcome to you.

Question to Bruce, during the complete bag check, you said they only took your boarding pass and copied the information on it. Boarding passes only have your name but not your address on them. At any time during the bag check, did they remove your wallet and inspect all the contents of the wallet and copy your address from your drivers license

As far as I know, the TSA is allowed to inspect all carry on items, including wallets for WEI, but are not allowed to count the money in the wallet, look at checks, read credit cards or read any other personal information within the wallet or any other carry on item.

I believe the recent agreement accepted by the court in a lawsuit filed by the ACLU who represented the campaigner for Ron Paul against the DHS, a result of when the TSA found over $4000 and detained and questioned the campaigner. The ACLU agreed to drop the lawsuit when the DHS changed their policy that TSA inspections would be strictly limited to WEI only, plus any banned contraband.

If a TSO intentionally removed your drivers license for the sole purpose of obtaining your address, this could be a violation of the agreement with the court and possibly a civil charge could be brought against the TSO who removed your drivers license.

If so, I think a call to the ACLU office who handled this case is in order, explaining the situation, ask them for the name of the Federal judge who presided over this case, and then contact one of the judges law clerks to check to see if this was a violation of the court order.

If it was me and they were going to do that thorough of an inspection, I would also have ordered them to immediately stop and requested an LEO be present before continuing, making sure the LEO knows that I called for them for the purpose to watch over the TSO’s, stating I have concerns they are not to be trusted because of all the checkpoint thefts that have occurred recently.

Mr. Elliott

DHS must have gotten a copy of the military sockpuppet system I heard about.

No problem there. My driver's license (which was in my wallet) stayed in my pocket the whole time, beginning to end. It never came out, and nobody asked to see it. My passport was in my carry-on bag, but the guy who found my boarding pass apparently couldn't be bothered to look for my passport, too. All the information he obtained was from my boarding pass.

Bruce

I'm neither a troll, nor a sockpuppet -that's a violation of flyertalk's TOS. :p

Velvet, Welcome to FT!

Rest assured that real terrorists would get into the secure areas of an airport by means other than the TSA checkpoint. One lead clerk in Buffalo has already been arrested for assisting a druggie getting through the checkpoint. It's a lot easier to bribe someone than it is to go through the actual TSA checkpoint.

Harassing citizens is pointless, except for the security theater aspect, which is what legitimizes the TSA and keeps the taxpayer dollars flowing.

What this tells me is that even the screeners themselves don't believe they have any likelihood of stopping an act of terror at the checkpoint. As easily drawn into retaliation as they are and as frequently as their attention is diverted by their personal power trips, they allow their time and focus to be consumed with hassling the people who simply want to get from Point A to Point B.

The stupidest part about it is that, these days, it wouldn't even make sense for a terrorist to attempt to take down a plane. If a terrorist got on a plane (which, if any tried, I'm sure they would - look at the shoe bomber and underwear bomber!), the passengers would stop the attack. Which is exactly what happened the last two times a terrorist attempted to blow up a plane. (Having, of course, evaded the TSA.)

No, there are WAY more accessible, and dangerous, places for terrorists to target these days. Hell, if one just blew up a crowded TSA checkpoint, they'd inflict at least as much damage as blowing up a plane...and send a far more potent message to America about our utter lack of security.

Don't even need to put out that much effort. All Osama YoMama has to do is create "buzz" in what passes for social media in the terrorist world. Dollars to donuts that's what got the oxygen masks removed from aircraft lavatories.

I'm quite sure that all screeners quite readily realize that they couldn't stop someone blowing up a rubber johnny, let alone blowing up their checkpoint to kingdom come. Yet they continue to do what they do every working day. The same thing, over and over, in the same spot.

It's a sad state of affairs really, that low key, non-reactionary and largely behind the scenes security measures were not developed in the days after 9/11, and instead this intrinsically pompous, divisive and money wasting desire to make a huge deal out of the slightest thing and take away peoples rights in huge bites every couple of years became the norm.

Maybe. But I hope I never get behind you in line! :)

I would have no problem being in line behind or being in a foxhole with the OP.

It is unfortunate that the masses are asses, making almost anything proposed or done by the TSA possible.

My private theory on this is that those who are distracted come into the job with personality problems. We know that happens in every workplace. No two people do the job with equal efficiency. And a lot of the difference comes from personal issues. Theoretically, you might train enough to overcome that, but I think reality is you never do. So when someone gets overbearing, it is perhaps because they either believe others don't respect them or, worse, they don't really respect themselves. That fuels intense emotion whenever anything hits that hot button.