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The OP and their actions at IAH are why people do not have respect for lawyers. Maybe their time would have been better spent assisting newbie travelers at the airport, or providing legal assistance to travelers with actual problems.
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Originally Posted by nsx
(Post 14546846)
... in a successful attempt to bait the TSOs into harassing me when they could not understand my bizarre behavior. FTFY.
Exactly how does one "bait" TSA screeners into harassing oneself by remaining on the non-sterile side of the screening area and engaging in photography -a pastime that is enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of people across our once free country? Do you really mean to imply that simply going about your own business in a peaceful, lawful manner is now considered to be a provocation by TSA? |
Originally Posted by MAYNARDS99
(Post 14547055)
Maybe their time would have been better spent assisting newbie travelers at the airport, or providing legal assistance to travelers with actual problems.
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Originally Posted by MAYNARDS99
(Post 14547055)
The OP and their actions at IAH are why people do not have respect for lawyers. Maybe their time would have been better spent assisting newbie travelers at the airport, or providing legal assistance to travelers with actual problems.
What a tool. |
Nearly Impossible to find the SSI Comment Card
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 14527262)
It is a form that has been on the internet for a few years. I have it on my computer, but don't know how to put it up here. Superguy gave me his link a couple of years ago that is still good to the form, but I would want him to post it (or his permission). Goalie also keeps the form, so perhaps he has a link.
It is called a "Complaint/Compliment Data Form." The blank form has the following at the bottom: Why is it nearly impossible to locate this card (as a PDF or whatever) on the internet? You'd think TSA would have them right there on their site for one an all. |
Originally Posted by c141heaven
(Post 14547391)
Why is it nearly impossible to locate this card (as a PDF or whatever) on the internet? You'd think TSA would have them right there on their site for one an all.
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Originally Posted by c141heaven
(Post 14547391)
Why is it nearly impossible to locate this card (as a PDF or whatever) on the internet?
Originally Posted by c141heaven
(Post 14547391)
You'd think TSA would have them right there on their site for one an all.
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Found it online!
Originally Posted by reamworks
(Post 14527145)
Thanks for the detailed account. It's helpful when this happens to an attorney, so the rest of us can get a clear idea of what happens and why, and what we're supposed to do.
As someone who carries a lot of camera equipment with him, and is known to take a photo or two, I'm always worried about this. Most of the photos I take at airports now are with concealed, wearable cameras, which I realize may get me scrutiny if caught.... It also strikes me that all their actions were purely "retaliatory." I can't believe for one minute they thought you were any kind of threat. They probably thought you were a wise-a**, and simply wanted to "teach you a lesson." Can you help me understand what an "SSI Comment Form" is? A few minutes ago I posted a question about why it is so hard to find the form online....I was looking for the wrong 'form name'..... Here's a link to it... http://www.thousandsstandingaround.o...plaintForm.pdf Can't be found on the TSA site, of course.....(and it's from 2004 or so).... Go figure. |
Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!
I am glad to see that there are so many Libertarians on FT! Perhaps we have a chance with the next election to truly bring about real "Change You Can Believe In", i.e. smaller government and more civil rights.
The TSA and DHS provide zero increase in safety, yet do decrease the rights of the citizens. Therefore, they should be abolished. Anyone here who argues we would be less safe without the draconian measures of surveillance and scrutiny now foisted upon our citizens in the name of public safety is a fool!! If you can smuggle 80 condoms filled with cocaine in your gut, onto a plane from Colombia, then you can smuggle onboard 80 condoms full of plastique and thereby, bring down any plane, any time, any where. So the dolts at DHS have just been lucky that no one has yet wanted to meet Allah enough to swallow some condoms filled with explosives. The real risk from terrorism is exceptionally small. You have a much better chance of dying in a car accident, being murdered by another American, falling, committing suicide, getting killed as a pedestrian, or even getting hit by lightning! We should have a "War on Cars" not a "War on Terrorism" if we truly want to save lives! But, of course, that is not what this government usurpation of The Citizen's Liberty is about, it is about control of the population for the enrichment of the bureaucratic class. "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.", Thomas Jefferson. I am willing to take my chances in the air with less security and more Liberty! "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.", Benjamin Franklin. |
Originally Posted by T-the-B
(Post 14547139)
Exactly how does one "bait" TSA screeners into harassing oneself by remaining on the non-sterile side of the screening area and engaging in photography
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 14527088)
TSO1 asked if I had identification to which I said yes. He then asked if he could see it to which I said no.
Note well that I'm not saying that the TSOs were entitled to see the ID or that the OP was not on solid legal ground. I'm only saying that the OP intended to provoke a reaction and succeeded. I don't see how anyone reading the OP could conclude otherwise. |
Originally Posted by clrankin
(Post 14546931)
So would it be your suggestion that people should just give up trying to photograph things around airports at all?
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It's not just at one airport---Listening to a scanner can get you "investigated."
Having been in the news business and had a variety of interactions with LEO's and security people, I can appreciate the OP's experience.
Originally Posted by polonius
(Post 14538786)
the OP notes that in this incident the "number of HPD officers at this gathering started at one, escalated quickly and ballooned to six. In addition, several uniformed TSO's and a number of other non-uniformed persons with lanyard ID's were standing nearby".
Doesn't it strike anyone else as a bit wierd, and a bit disturbing, that all one needs to do in order to distract and tie up a significant part of the security and law enforcement resource at an airport is walk around and snap a few photos? I don't know how long they'd been there before I arrived... but in the next row of chairs over, two middle-age guys with binoculars and a scanner on the windowsill were looking out the window and checking out the planes as they came in. Might have had a small camera or two... can't remember. I didn't see anything suspicious. Thought to myself, "Oh, the airplane equivalent of railfans." About about five or ten minutes after I sat down, what appeared to be a non-sworn security officer (middle-aged female) came over and began questioning them... apparently about what they were doing. There was some discussion about "you can't do that," if what I recall hearing snippets of is still correct in my mind. Over the course of 20 minutes to half an hour, the gentlemen were "required" to leave their seats, gather their stuff (baggage, too) and follow the lady over to where eventually four or so other security officer types, and what appeared to be an airline person had gathered. They were asked to submit the scanner for inspection, I think there was an iPod that got similar treatment. It seemed as if a lot of "consultation" was going on. The two guys seemed to be keeping their cool. I thought about pulling my Nikon out and taking pictures... perhaps inquiring or attempting to "assist"... but resisted the urge since I wanted to make my flight to the next stop on my way home. Eventually the two men were allowed to return to where they had been seated, and they resumed what they were doing. During this, I was concerned that they'd be A: Detained and miss their flight, causing an un-needed hassle for them and B: That someone would take their seats in the crowded waiting area. Others were sitting on the floor. The situation got my blood pressure up... but I ended up not getting involved out of my own self interests, something that bothers me today. I also like to take pictures of planes out the concourse windows while waiting. Haven't had problems doing so. Haven't had the OP's problem in unsecured areas. My experiences with TSA people have been OK... even with huge crushes of people at screening... and with laptop, laptop bag, carry-on w/camera gear, wires and stuff that's sometimes hard to see well in the X-ray and gets hand-checked. I'm pleasant with them, and they've been pleasant with me. I know that they're there to do a job that involves interaction with hurried people who are sometimes running late—I confess to being one. Yes, one will find some folks who have ego problems in "authority positions." Had one security screener in SFO, back in the 80's tell me I couldn't take a carryon with tape recording equipment and mike cables aboard my SFO-SMF flight "because you might use them to strangle someone." This same bag had been SMF-SFO and then SFO-HON and then HON-SFO on this trip without that ever being suggested. I didn't want to risk my bag ending up in Podunk, IA (although this was a prop flight directly to SMF) and went looking for a San Francisco Police Officer to assist in getting my back into the cabin. I was told, essentially, "Her word is it." So my bag went into checked baggage. The bag never showed up that evening... and American had to deliver it the next day. Couldn't explain what happened, either. I've not flown American since, and likely won't again. |
While I have no particular love for the TSA nor see the value in their process, I have to agree w/ nsx as I was thinking the same thing while reading the post. It sounds like the OP was looking for trouble. Granted he found obvious flaws and holes in the system and we all get to discuss them now. I'm sure he had a feeling what would occur after each step and still wanted to see what would happen. I'm sure the OP could have rectified the situation many times, but decided to dig further like an investigative reporter hired by nobody.
Thank you for the fun story. I am sure, however, that you knew what you were doing and had a feeling what the outcome might be. |
Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 14527088)
I do believe that civil liberties were run roughshod over in this situation. I had some faith in the system, but it appears that when it comes to these matters, everyone shouts 9/11 and hides. The terrorists must be laughing.
Unfortunately, anyone can do anything now claiming that it's "for security reasons", and any questioning of this responds in some slight about terrorist sympathies. I recommend that you rewrite this in journalese, and submit it to USA Today, or another national newspaper as a freelance comment piece. It may well get published. |
Originally Posted by zombietooth
(Post 14547432)
I am glad to see that there are so many Libertarians on FT! Perhaps we have a chance with the next election to truly bring about real "Change You Can Believe In", i.e. smaller government and more civil rights.
The TSA and DHS provide zero increase in safety, yet do decrease the rights of the citizens. Therefore, they should be abolished. Anyone here who argues we would be less safe without the draconian measures of surveillance and scrutiny now foisted upon our citizens in the name of public safety is a fool!! If you can smuggle 80 condoms filled with cocaine in your gut, onto a plane from Colombia, then you can smuggle onboard 80 condoms full of plastique and thereby, bring down any plane, any time, any where. So the dolts at DHS have just been lucky that no one has yet wanted to meet Allah enough to swallow some condoms filled with explosives. The real risk from terrorism is exceptionally small. You have a much better chance of dying in a car accident, being murdered by another American, falling, committing suicide, getting killed as a pedestrian, or even getting hit by lightning! We should have a "War on Cars" not a "War on Terrorism" if we truly want to save lives! But, of course, that is not what this government usurpation of The Citizen's Liberty is about, it is about control of the population for the enrichment of the bureaucratic class. "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty.", Thomas Jefferson. I am willing to take my chances in the air with less security and more Liberty! "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.", Benjamin Franklin. Bruce |
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