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-   -   Call to arms. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1032474-call-arms.html)

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 4:21 pm

Call to arms.
 
Watching Fox News (shut up, don't want to hear it) just now Lieberman and the rest of the Government officials and Representatives on the show are pushing the WBI.

Contact your Representatives and let them know they will lose your vote if they allow the further intrusion of the Nude-O-Scope style WBI.

Refuse the WBI at all costs.

Let your Reps know dogs are the most effective, most non-intrusive and most cost effective way to detect explosives.

Spiff Dec 27, 2009 4:23 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063258)
Let your Reps know dogs are the most effective, most non-intrusive and most cost effective way to detect explosives.

Or ETP. Or ETD.

UALOneKPlus Dec 27, 2009 4:25 pm

What is the WBI?

jkhuggins Dec 27, 2009 4:29 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063258)
Contact your Representatives and let them know they will lose your vote if they allow the further intrusion of the Nude-O-Scope style WBI.

Of course, my representative is in a safe district, and didn't have my vote in the first place. (In fact, the district is so safe that the opposing political party didn't even bother to field a candidate ... I had to vote for one of the obscure also-ran candidates in protest ...)

Far better to attempt to persuade one's representatives if at all possible ...

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 4:30 pm


Originally Posted by UALOneKPlus (Post 13063283)
What is the WBI?

Whole Body Imager. It is the device that allows the TSA to see under your clothes. It is also known as the Nude-O-Scope.

halls120 Dec 27, 2009 4:31 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063258)
Watching Fox News (shut up, don't want to hear it) just now Lieberman and the rest of the Government officials and Representatives on the show are pushing the WBI.

Contact your Representatives and let them know they will lose your vote if they allow the further intrusion of the Nude-O-Scope style WBI.

Refuse the WBI at all costs.

Let your Reps know dogs are the most effective, most non-intrusive and most cost effective way to detect explosives.

Is Senator Lieberman going to see to it that WBI's are installed throughout the entire world?

UALOneKPlus Dec 27, 2009 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063317)
Whole Body Imager. It is the device that allows the TSA to see under your clothes. It is also known as the Nude-O-Scope.

Got it, thanks.

So will we enjoy the XXX-ray? Are the images XXX-rated?

ba-zing, I'm good today!!! :D

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 4:47 pm


Originally Posted by UALOneKPlus (Post 13063324)
Got it, thanks.

So will we enjoy the XXX-ray? Are the images XXX-rated?

ba-zing, I'm good today!!! :D

You tell me. The two on the left are images released by the TSA the two on the right were released by CNN.

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 4:48 pm


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 13063319)
Is Senator Lieberman going to see to it that WBI's are installed throughout the entire world?

Sure it is only money... OUR money.

UALOneKPlus Dec 27, 2009 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063395)

Damn, that's rather pornographic. If you were to show this on TV, censors would give it an X-rated rating!!!

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 4:51 pm


Originally Posted by UALOneKPlus (Post 13063408)
Damn, that's rather pornographic. If you were to show this on TV, censors would give it an X-rated rating!!!

Yep. Do you think that 98% of the people think that the device is just dandy, because that is what the TSA is claiming.

UALOneKPlus Dec 27, 2009 4:53 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063418)
Yep. Do you think that 98% of the people think that the device is just dandy, because that is what the TSA is claiming.

Well, that's kind of like asking Playboy if someone in a nude pose is acceptable or not...

gdeluca Dec 27, 2009 5:04 pm

I will write my Congressman in Illinois and I have sent the image to friends and family.

Global_Hi_Flyer Dec 27, 2009 5:06 pm

Heard a story this afternoon about a newer type of WBI - that is excellent at detecting explosives AND drugs.

makfan Dec 27, 2009 5:07 pm

Gives new meaning to dresses on the left. Yikes.

UALOneKPlus Dec 27, 2009 5:14 pm

I want to know if a Colonoscopy will be provided free of charge. Of course, it's part of the national health care bill!!

Let's kill 2 birds with one stone!! WBI, Colonoscopy, CAT scan, dental x-rays, all done in one convenient setting, as you go through airport security!!!!

Brilliant!!!!!!! :D :D

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 9:08 pm

I have placed an open letter on my blog, feel free to incorporate it into your own letters.

As always please proof it for me.
Thanks

Spiff Dec 27, 2009 9:26 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 13063498)
Heard a story this afternoon about a newer type of WBI - that is excellent at detecting explosives AND drugs.

There is absolutely no reason to be concerned about drugs.

Explosives can be detected reliably and unobtrusively with ETP/ETD. There's no need for disgusting WBI.

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 9:28 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 13063498)
Heard a story this afternoon about a newer type of WBI - that is excellent at detecting explosives AND drugs.

The WBI does not detect anything, it only allows the operator to look under your clothes. It is up to the operator to determine if you are hiding something.

Of course it is worthless if the object is hidden in a fat fold or body cavity.

Spiff Dec 27, 2009 9:35 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13064522)
I have placed an open letter on my blog, feel free to incorporate it into your own letters.

As always please proof it for me.
Thanks

I recommend adding ETP/ETD to the letter. The technology is proven and at least one ETD machine is already at every checkpoint in the country.

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 9:38 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 13064636)
I recommend adding ETP/ETD to the letter. The technology is proven and at least one ETD machine is already at every checkpoint in the country.

Give me a sample sentence or paragraph. I want to make sure I get it right.

Spiff Dec 27, 2009 9:42 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13064648)
Give me a sample sentence or paragraph. I want to make sure I get it right.

I encourage you to require Explosives Trace Detection (ETD) at the checkpoint as the primary means of checking passengers and/or their belongings for explosives. This technology is proven and could easily be more widely-deployed if the TSA were required to re-allocate funds from their existing budget intelligently. Another option is the use of the Explosives Trace Portal (ETP), such as the GE EntryScan3. The TSA has claimed technological challenges in using these machines effectively. However, just as is the case with ETD, requiring that the TSA re-allocate funds intelligently would overcome any problems with filters or false-positives on perfume.

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 9:50 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 13064665)
I encourage you to require Explosives Trace Detection (ETD) at the checkpoint as the primary means of checking passengers and/or their belongings for explosives. This technology is proven and could easily be more widely-deployed if the TSA were required to re-allocate funds from their existing budget intelligently. Another option is the use of the Explosives Trace Portal (ETP), such as the GE EntryScan3. The TSA has claimed technological challenges in using these machines effectively. However, just as is the case with ETD, requiring that the TSA re-allocate funds intelligently would overcome any problems with filters or false-positives on perfume.

Added with minor edits.

Olton Hall Dec 27, 2009 9:55 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063258)
Watching Fox News (shut up, don't want to hear it) just now Lieberman and the rest of the Government officials and Representatives on the show are pushing the WBI.

Contact your Representatives and let them know they will lose your vote if they allow the further intrusion of the Nude-O-Scope style WBI.

Refuse the WBI at all costs.

Let your Reps know dogs are the most effective, most non-intrusive and most cost effective way to detect explosives.

But that threat might mean I'd be indicating my vote for Lou Dobbs.

Trollkiller Dec 27, 2009 9:57 pm


Originally Posted by Olton Hall (Post 13064723)
But that threat might mean I'd be indicating my vote for Lou Dobbs.

If Lou keeps my privates private I think I would have to vote that way.

borderpolman Dec 27, 2009 10:12 pm

The discouraging this about this that the "security" industry just got another shot at hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers money to install equipment that will be used by folks who are poorly paid, trained or motivated to keep us safe. In the meantime the terrorist are doing what they said they would do, cripple America and her allies by ruining the economy through spending billions looking to find them.

tusphotog Dec 27, 2009 10:48 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 13063498)
Heard a story this afternoon about a newer type of WBI - that is excellent at detecting explosives AND drugs.

Here's a link to a piece about the MIT scanner. I read this last week and was thinking "why does TSA need to worry about drugs?!?" This is getting ridiculous.

JakiChan Dec 28, 2009 1:08 am

I wonder how much plastique I could shove up under my ample fat apron, and how the WBI detect it? Oh yeah, it wouldn't.

Boggie Dog Dec 28, 2009 5:13 am

Listening to various Congress Critters over the last couple of days does not bode well for our future TSA Experiences.

They all seem to be saying anything to keep air travel safe.

TSORon Dec 28, 2009 5:58 am

Hate to say "I told you so" (actually, I dont mind at all) but I believe this was predicted.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13054834-post89.html

Which I believe said:

"Now, I have seen nothing official on this yet, but here is what I can see happening.
1. Increased call for WBI’s at all checkpoints and increasing the frequency of their use.
2. A significant DHS budget increase, with the largest portion of it going out to other countries so that they can improve their pre-boarding security.
3. Lighters and matches, well lets just say that we have been there before.
4. Random screening at all US airports will jump significantly.
5. The current efforts by some members of congress to ban the use of WBI systems will quietly die a well deserved death. "

Now just who would have been so insightful as to predict this? :cool:

halls120 Dec 28, 2009 6:09 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13065825)
Hate to say "I told you so" (actually, I dont mind at all) but I believe this was predicted.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13054834-post89.html

Which I believe said:

"Now, I have seen nothing official on this yet, but here is what I can see happening.
1. Increased call for WBI’s at all checkpoints and increasing the frequency of their use.
2. A significant DHS budget increase, with the largest portion of it going out to other countries so that they can improve their pre-boarding security.
3. Lighters and matches, well lets just say that we have been there before.
4. Random screening at all US airports will jump significantly.
5. The current efforts by some members of congress to ban the use of WBI systems will quietly die a well deserved death. "

Now just who would have been so insightful as to predict this? :cool:

While I agree with banning matches and lighters, how about addressing the existing inane TSA measures that will provide absolutely no additional security?

Requiring people to remain in their seats for the last 60 minutes of an international flight is both stupid and ineffective. A potential terrorist will simply get up at 75 minutes before landing, recover what he/she needs from carry-on luggage, and go to the rest room at that point. Your brilliant management doesn't realize this?

Turning off the route map and prohibiting in-flight announcements is similarly stupid. Come on, anyone with a watch can calculate when an aircraft makes landfall after an overwater flight. Well, maybe we'd have to exclude anyone who works at TSA HQ. This simple task might be too difficult for them.

The reality of a 60 minute "no stand" requirement for an international arrival at Washington Dulles means that a passenger won't be able to use a restroom for almost 90 minutes. Some people simply need to urinate more frequently than others. Does TSA intend to force people to soil themselves? Are you going to prosecute people who finally can't hold it and get up to use the rest room?

The terrorists are winning, and sadly, TSA is helping them.

MiamiAirport Formerly NY George Dec 28, 2009 6:22 am

Give me a break. We don't need fancy machines that cost billions and constantly malfunction. We need common sense.

This was a guy on a watch list that openly did all of the things that security officials are suppose to look for. He purchased a one way tix a few days before flight in cash in a third world country. He provided no telephone or contact information. He shows up at the airport with[B] a small carry on bag. He selects a seat right over the fuel tanks. And no one pulls him aside and asks him his intended business in the US. No one goes pats him down or searches his carry on. He did everything except wear a sign that said "planning on blowing up the plane."[/B]

And now the dog and pony show at the airport is going big time. Got a 7PM business trip next week to London from NYC. You will need to leave your office no by 1PM to go through the gorilla style security process. And coming back we now turn off the IFE and seat mapper because some one won't be able to look out the window and realize that they are over land or that the flight is descending for landing?

halls120 Dec 28, 2009 7:09 am

One more question for our security "expert."

Ron, do the WBI machines detect explosives? How?

Boggie Dog Dec 28, 2009 9:49 am

This event seems to make an excellent argument to redeploy the sniffers and work out the problems with them.

N965VJ Dec 28, 2009 10:33 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13065825)
5. The current efforts by some members of congress to ban the use of WBI systems will quietly die a well deserved death. "

Somehow, I missed the part where Rep. Chaffetz changed his mind about WBI.

TSORon Dec 28, 2009 11:43 am


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 13066069)
One more question for our security "expert."

Ron, do the WBI machines detect explosives? How?

I have never actually seen one of these machines myself, but the information on what they can do is pretty much public knowledge.

It detects anomalies. Things in pockets or pretty much anything on top of the individuals skin including clothing. And of course any anomalies must be investigated further. I know for a fact that they can detect small amounts of marijuana in people’s pockets, we get reports on it every day. It does not detect it as marijuana but as an anomolie.

TSORon Dec 28, 2009 11:46 am


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 13067290)
Somehow, I missed the part where Rep. Chaffetz changed his mind about WBI.

Give it time. There was a movement to ban the things, now there is a movement to deploy more of them. Like I said, it will be a quiet demise.:p

Spiff Dec 28, 2009 11:51 am


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 13067290)
Somehow, I missed the part where Rep. Chaffetz changed his mind about WBI.

Unlike some of the Congressional scumbags who are proponents of these disgusting, perverted devices, he's not changing his stance.

Perverts "in charge" of TSA might not get to use those confiscated lotions in conjunction with WBI to get their sick jollies after all. It would be nice if they also lost their ability to get off checking out people's feet and shoes.

Let's drive these sick perverts and pederasts back to the peep shows where they belong!

N965VJ Dec 28, 2009 11:54 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13067745)
Give it time. There was a movement to ban the things, now there is a movement to deploy more of them. Like I said, it will be a quiet demise.:p

Kind of a strange way to let it die quietly –

Chaffetz sticks by image-screening ban after terrorist attempt

Washington » Rep. Jason Chaffetz on Sunday defended his legislation to ban primary screening of airline passengers with whole-body imaging machines just days after a Nigerian man apparently attempted to blow up a flight landing in Detroit with chemicals he smuggled on board.

Chaffetz, R-Utah, pushed legislation through the House earlier this year that would prohibit U.S. airport screeners from using imaging machines which can peer through clothes to detect weapons or explosives. Former and current government officials said Sunday that such devices may aid in thwarting the ability of terrorists to bring aboard incendiary materials.

"It's a difficult balance between protecting our civil liberties and protecting the safety of people on airplanes," Chaffetz said Sunday. But, "I believe there's technology out there that can identify bomb-type materials without necessarily, overly invading our privacy."

MrPink Dec 28, 2009 11:57 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13063395)

Do you have a link to an original source of the TSA images? As is, one could argue that the comparative image has been "doctored."


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