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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Call to arms. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1032474-call-arms.html)

goalie Jan 17, 2010 6:48 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13198497)
I hate to stick my nose in this ... but after a little web searching, it looks like both sides are right on this one.

In short: the rules are different for paper currency and coinage.

For paper, TSORon appears to be correct:

Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

I can't seem to find anything else that would qualify this; at face value, it looks like destroying paper currency is in fact against the law......

emphasis mine: not quite.... ;) what you are citing applies to someone deliberately and with intent (n.b. deliberately and with intent) cutting in half a piece of currency (simplest example) and bringing the currency to the fed (or agent of the fed) to obtain a whole (i.e. un-cut) bill and affects those who want to commit fraud and not those simply cutting, burning, perforating, and etc just cuz they feel like it. TSORon is wrong

TSORon Jan 18, 2010 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13197982)
Hey Ronny my boy,

You said x-ray can't distinguish books and newspapers from explosives.

If that is the case, TSO's should be doing a lot more hand checks than they are now.

So why don't they?

Because humans are the ones interpreting the data, and the more experience one has doing so the better they get at it. New X-ray operators call for lots of bag checks, and use it as a learning opportunity, the more experienced an operator is the fewer bag checks they call for and the more likely they are to catch the prohibited item.

Tom M. Jan 18, 2010 2:33 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13197844)

... we see a organic block that could be a book, an explosive, a stack of cash, or just a durned newspaper. And since the possibility exists that it may be an explosive, the administrative search process remains unblemished.

So now you are saying an experienced TSO operator can distinguish the difference.

Interesting that earlier you said "we" when referring to those who can't distinguish the difference.

How long have you been on the job?

TSORon Jan 18, 2010 2:37 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 13199355)
And this is the kind of arrogance that is one prime reason that TSA looks bad. Ron, it's obvious that you're on a witch hunt when you work, based on the statements you make here and the attitude with which you make them. Assuming that other screeners are like you, and it's also obvious that your goal is NOT security of aviation, but rather a larger dragnet with the intent to chase and prosecute crime. That's not the agency's mission, but what the heck, why let things like that stop a good dragnet.

I wonder if you might be better going back to being a policeman where you will truly be able to have the power over the people.

Opinions vary. In most circles people will see it as a person who knows his job and is confident in that. Only here does a TSO who knows what he is doing get grief for being confident. People here don’t like that type of thing, they would prefer to kow the average TSO who comes here and work hard to do so. I don’t kow-tow to anyone, much less the inexperienced and the ignorant.

So, before the sensors stop in here and blast a few posts or users, I’ll leave it at this. I know my job, I’m sorry some here find that offensive. I know what I am talking about as well, and folks find that just as offensive. Oh well, get use to it, they are everywhere in life, and you cannot avoid them.

TSORon Jan 18, 2010 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by greentips (Post 13200304)
1. I never said anything about destroying currency.
2. If it is in my possession, it is simply not the government's money and will never be the government's money unless I hand it to the government to pay a legal debt, usually taxes, but as I've found out, the IRS doesn't accept cash.
It may be the government's currency, but it is, in fact, my cash. The government is not permitted to have any interest in it.

Therefore, your response, as have been so many others, is a non sequitur.

Interesting theory, but incorrect. Sorry about that, but the facts is the facts.

TSORon Jan 18, 2010 2:43 pm


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 13200418)
I didn't realize that guarding Air Force airplanes necessitated that much more training for drugs than the average civilian airport policeman.

You also dont seem to realize what it is that an Air Force Security Policeman does, which does not surprise me much. Most people who have not done the job dont understand it, but they can and do make assumptions.

TSORon Jan 18, 2010 2:44 pm


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13205822)
How long have you been on the job?

Longer than you. :D

ND Sol Jan 18, 2010 3:27 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13205889)
You also dont seem to realize what it is that an Air Force Security Policeman does, which does not surprise me much. Most people who have not done the job dont understand it, but they can and do make assumptions.

I know that you have 13 years as a USAF Security Specialist, but your classification was not the typical LEO that we are familiar with on the non-military side. Your job classification was to protect things like Air Force planes and missiles. Law Enforcement Specialists (811X2) are the airmen that perform traditional police functions (as opposed to 81170).

And by the way, I did command an Army MP unit so I think I might have a little knowledge about this area (so who is making the assumptions now?).

halls120 Jan 18, 2010 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13205895)
Longer than you. :D

But you still can't answer my question, can you Ron?:D

Tom M. Jan 18, 2010 4:53 pm


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13205895)
Longer than you. :D

And you still can't distinguish between a book and explosives.

the facts is the facts.....

And I see that you still believe that a person destroying currency is a crime, even after given the opportunity to do the research.

Wrong again, the facts is the facts...

TSORon Jan 19, 2010 4:38 am


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13206659)
And you still can't distinguish between a book and explosives.

I didn’t say that. I said that the x-ray cannot, it’s the Operator that makes the determination.


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13206659)
the facts is the facts.....

Which you continue to get wrong. Is it that hard for you to admit that I am correct?


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13206659)
And I see that you still believe that a person destroying currency is a crime, even after given the opportunity to do the research.

Wrong again, the facts is the facts...

I was proven correct, by another poster. Is it that hard for you to admit that I am correct?

TSORon Jan 19, 2010 4:42 am


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 13206303)
But you still can't answer my question, can you Ron?:D

Sure I can. I choose not to, at least not any further than I already have.

Listen guys, this is getting towards the personal side and I would hate to have the admins back in here deleting posts and admonishing users because we cannot keep the conversation on topic or civil. So either stay on topic or let the thread die.

Tom M. Jan 19, 2010 6:11 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13209482)
it’s the Operator that makes the determination.

And you said you were not able to make that determination.

Yet bags don't get handchecked.








Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13209482)
I was proven correct, by another poster. Is it that hard for you to admit that I am correct?

And that poster was proven wrong by another poster.

Or you could do your own research, but then it is hard for you to admit you are wrong.

Care to place a wager?

Tom M. Jan 19, 2010 6:12 am


Originally Posted by TSORon (Post 13209487)
Sure I can. I choose not to, at least not any further than I already have.......

...... So either stay on topic or let the thread die.


Amazing, absolutely amazing......:rolleyes:

AngryMiller Jan 19, 2010 6:17 am


Originally Posted by Tom M. (Post 13209773)
Amazing, absolutely amazing......:rolleyes:

Guess that congratulations are in order for Ron becoming the newest moderator....oh, you mean he isn't a moderator?


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