Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Jun 18, 2021, 10:04 am
#376
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Virginia
Programs: HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott nobody
Posts: 470
I have a major purchase that I want to put on the new CSP card in about 16 - 18 days. Counting backward, assuming ten calendar days for Chase to ship me the new card, I should PC then reapply ASAP. Then I discovered I still have about $100 unused travel credit on my CSR, so the earliest date I can PC is tomorrow, after I use up all the travel credit today through grocery shopping.
Jun 19, 2021, 1:03 am
#377
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA; Philadelphia, PA
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 6,134
I just want to double check before I proceed. The AF for my Boundless CC just posted a few days ago. If I call to PC it to Bold within 30 days of posting, I can get the full AF refunded (vs. prorated). TIA.
LAX
LAX
Jun 19, 2021, 6:07 am
#378
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 64
I have a major purchase that I want to put on the new CSP card in about 16 - 18 days. Counting backward, assuming ten calendar days for Chase to ship me the new card, I should PC then reapply ASAP. Then I discovered I still have about $100 unused travel credit on my CSR, so the earliest date I can PC is tomorrow, after I use up all the travel credit today through grocery shopping.
Last edited by VoiceActor; Jun 19, 2021 at 6:08 am Reason: add info
Jun 19, 2021, 2:04 pm
#380
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Virginia
Programs: HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Marriott nobody
Posts: 470
Jun 19, 2021, 4:27 pm
#381
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Intermountain West
Programs: Too many to list
Posts: 12,082
Jun 24, 2021, 6:24 pm
#382
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Intermountain West
Programs: Too many to list
Posts: 12,082
Got 2 months AF refund when downgrading my CSR this month
I downgraded my CSR to a CF earlier this month and just noticed that I got a $75 AF credit. That's 2/12 of $450. I paid the AF on the CSR last Sept and had no idea they prorated the AF for up to 12 months. Happy camper.
Jun 25, 2021, 6:46 am
#383
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
That's another advantage of downgrading vs. cancelling.
Jun 25, 2021, 10:03 am
#384
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
What is the current guidance on downgrading after receiving a retention bonus? I was lucky enough to get a hundred dollars during the months when it was available, and it was not on a cycle with the annual fee. Should I wait 12 months from when I got the offer or can I safely downgrade at the next annual fee? I will be especially interested in downgrading if I'm charged the full $550 next time. Thanks.
Jul 4, 2021, 11:15 pm
#385
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 145
My CSR AF posted on my May statement, and my June statement ends today. My last transaction utilizing the last bit of my $300 travel credit is still pending. Will I still get a complete refund of my AF if I downgrade a few days after my June statement posts? Is there an accurate exact number of days after your AF posts that you get a full refund when you downgrade? I have found 30, 40, 41, and 60 days, and not sure which is correct.
Jul 6, 2021, 7:17 am
#386
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: DL MM, Marriott LT Titanium, AA EXP, Avis Chairmans
Posts: 1,399
I PC'd my CSR to a CFU on 6/23, and successfully applied for and got my CSP card with the 100K SUB. I know you can't APPLY for a second Sapphire card if you already hold one, but I've seen reports on Blogs about 1) Reversing the PC (within 30 days) back to the CSR or 2) Upgrading my very old plain Freedom card to the CSR. Any current DPs on either scenario for holding two Sapphire products?
Jul 6, 2021, 9:32 am
#387
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
I PC'd my CSR to a CFU on 6/23, and successfully applied for and got my CSP card with the 100K SUB. I know you can't APPLY for a second Sapphire card if you already hold one, but I've seen reports on Blogs about 1) Reversing the PC (within 30 days) back to the CSR or 2) Upgrading my very old plain Freedom card to the CSR. Any current DPs on either scenario for holding two Sapphire products?
Jul 6, 2021, 5:19 pm
#388
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,931
MDD still works, at least as of a couple months ago.
Jul 6, 2021, 9:18 pm
#389
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 2
If you add up my personal cards and business, I am well over 50% of my income, which is why I think that business CL might not be included? However, the last card I got from Chase (CFU 7 months ago) was only approved with a $500 credit limit. Recently downgraded CSP to OG Freedom, and plan to reapply in a couple weeks, after my statement cuts, but should I decrease credit lines in advance in hopes to avoid a recon call?
The CIP is not under my SSN, it is under the business EIN, if that matters. But I did have to personal guarantee.
Jul 7, 2021, 6:37 am
#390
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
Does Chase count both the amount of credit from personal AND business cards, added together, when determining the maximum credit they will extend?
If you add up my personal cards and business, I am well over 50% of my income, which is why I think that business CL might not be included? However, the last card I got from Chase (CFU 7 months ago) was only approved with a $500 credit limit. Recently downgraded CSP to OG Freedom, and plan to reapply in a couple weeks, after my statement cuts, but should I decrease credit lines in advance in hopes to avoid a recon call?
The CIP is not under my SSN, it is under the business EIN, if that matters. But I did have to personal guarantee.
If you add up my personal cards and business, I am well over 50% of my income, which is why I think that business CL might not be included? However, the last card I got from Chase (CFU 7 months ago) was only approved with a $500 credit limit. Recently downgraded CSP to OG Freedom, and plan to reapply in a couple weeks, after my statement cuts, but should I decrease credit lines in advance in hopes to avoid a recon call?
The CIP is not under my SSN, it is under the business EIN, if that matters. But I did have to personal guarantee.