Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Dec 22, 2018, 7:07 am
#931
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
That being said, it has been possible, despite what you read. You can't downgrade a CSR or CSP directly to a Freedom product during the first year. However, you can downgrade to the plain old no-annual-fee Sapphire card. After a few days with the plain Sapphire card, you can then PC that to a Freedom product. Again, I don't recommend this as it can be viewed as abusive, but it should still be possible.
Last edited by StartinSanDiego; Dec 22, 2018 at 8:48 am Reason: Removed snark from quotation, see post above
Dec 22, 2018, 2:22 pm
#932
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
I don't recommend closing OR downgrading in the first year. IMO, the downgrade route to get partial refund of AF in the 1st year is even more abusive than closing.
That being said, it has been possible, despite what you read. You can't downgrade a CSR or CSP directly to a Freedom product during the first year. However, you can downgrade to the plain old no-annual-fee Sapphire card. After a few days with the plain Sapphire card, you can then PC that to a Freedom product. Again, I don't recommend this as it can be viewed as abusive, but it should still be possible.
That being said, it has been possible, despite what you read. You can't downgrade a CSR or CSP directly to a Freedom product during the first year. However, you can downgrade to the plain old no-annual-fee Sapphire card. After a few days with the plain Sapphire card, you can then PC that to a Freedom product. Again, I don't recommend this as it can be viewed as abusive, but it should still be possible.
He said, the CSR told him the system returned No Downgrade Option, even the basic Sapphire, and the CSR added some commentary to that. about not everyone is allowed to downgrade blah blah blah.
That is why I said using past history as guide for current decision without giving consideration of the rapidly changing environment, is problematic at least, and potential detrimental.
Dec 22, 2018, 2:38 pm
#933
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
May be in the past, but what I read is a very recent happening. The writer attempted exactly as what you suggested but the system would allow any option. The writer knew the tricks.
He said, the CSR told him the system returned No Downgrade Option, even the basic Sapphire, and the CSR added some commentary to that. about not everyone is allowed to downgrade blah blah blah.
That is why I said using past history as guide for current decision without giving consideration of the rapidly changing environment, is problematic at least, and potential detrimental.
He said, the CSR told him the system returned No Downgrade Option, even the basic Sapphire, and the CSR added some commentary to that. about not everyone is allowed to downgrade blah blah blah.
That is why I said using past history as guide for current decision without giving consideration of the rapidly changing environment, is problematic at least, and potential detrimental.
Dec 23, 2018, 8:38 am
#934
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/ch...12geyueleymmv/
More discussion in the comment section like all blogs, where you will find more information. In the discussion the author (also the co-owner of the blog) revealed how he found out the YMMV part (system generated denial of downgrade option).
I agree the downgrading within first year to get partial AF refund is more abusive. That is why AMEX listed it among the reasons to craw back sign up bonus.
Dec 23, 2018, 11:11 am
#935
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
Downgrading may help with that fi you will be able upgrade back again in a few years if you need to transfer then. But i don't know whether you can upgrade back again later.
Dec 28, 2018, 1:18 pm
#936
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
Dec 28, 2018, 1:45 pm
#937
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,955
One of the categories is Office Supplies. You can buy a wide range of gift cards at the chain office supply stores. This allows us to shift standard spending into a bonus category.
Dec 28, 2018, 1:57 pm
#938
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
INK Cash earns 5 points per dollar in specified categories, capped at $25,000 spend. 2 cards X $25,000 X 5 points = 250,000 points.
One of the categories is Office Supplies. You can buy a wide range of gift cards at the chain office supply stores. This allows us to shift standard spending into a bonus category.
One of the categories is Office Supplies. You can buy a wide range of gift cards at the chain office supply stores. This allows us to shift standard spending into a bonus category.
Dec 28, 2018, 2:01 pm
#939
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,955
5% Cash Back: You'll earn 5% Cash Back rewards total for each $1 of the first $25,000 spent each account anniversary year on combined purchases in the following rewards categories: office supply stores; internet, cable, and phone services (4% additional Cash Back rewards on top of the 1% Cash Back rewards earned on each purchase). After $25,000 is spent on combined purchases in these categories each account anniversary year, you go back to earning 1% Cash Back rewards for every dollar spent, with no maximum.
Jan 2, 2019, 7:00 am
#940
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: C1, C1.5 C2
Programs: aa ua dl jb starwood marriott hyatt
Posts: 442
Chase Business Ink Preferred Downgrade Decision
Am deciding whether to downgrade to Business Cash or Business Unlimited or just cancel.
Any suggestions?
Do much business and travel overseas and both cards have foreign transaction fees.
Could use Business Cash for gas for 2 points.
Have Chase Sapphire for Restaurants.
Any suggestions?
Do much business and travel overseas and both cards have foreign transaction fees.
Could use Business Cash for gas for 2 points.
Have Chase Sapphire for Restaurants.
Jan 2, 2019, 9:39 pm
#941
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
BTW, product change from Ink Preferred, the Ink Cash keeps the same card number but different expiration date and CVV.
Last edited by Happy; Jan 2, 2019 at 9:51 pm
Jan 3, 2019, 8:06 am
#942
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PDX
Programs: Don't think it matters...
Posts: 5,240
I PC'ed from CSP to CF and that too kept the same card number with different cvv and expiry date.
Jan 7, 2019, 3:30 pm
#943
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 70
Downgrade Question: Business ink to Personal Freedom Card
Hey Guys,
Am I able to downgrade the Business Ink to a personal Freedom card? I'm trying keep/move my ultimate rewards point and not affect the 5/24 rule.
Am I able to downgrade the Business Ink to a personal Freedom card? I'm trying keep/move my ultimate rewards point and not affect the 5/24 rule.
Jan 7, 2019, 3:53 pm
#944
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,193
Nope.
Jan 7, 2019, 6:29 pm
#945
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Programs: WN A-List Pref, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 460
Why downgrade to the Freedom when you could PC to Ink Cash?