bobloadmire

I'll make this brief.

I like cashing out UR points. 2 reasons.

1. I invest them. I move them directly to my brokerage account. I put them in ETFs. I make 15-30% per year historically.

2. What ever else I want to buy, I can get a credit card bonus for. Marriott, SWRR, United, ETC. So I really never need to transfer UR points. Atleast I haven't yet.

Anyone else have any way I could optimize this anymore? I know cashing out is generally looked down upon, but this works for me. And i'm not saying this is for everyone, I obviously see the value in transferring UR at the rates partners give.

Adam1222

then why dont you just get a cash back card instead?

bobloadmire

really? sign on bonuses.

amolkold

I beat sign on bonuses multiple times per month with my cash back card(s).

bobloadmire

I'd like to see how you get 500-600$ a month with a cash back card.

That being said, I'm waiting for a cash sign on bonus for the Fidelity 2% amex to pop back up again and put some mad MS on that.

kpd905

So by historically I assume you mean about the last two years? Long term you aren't going to see 15-30% forever, or you'll end up being the next Warren Buffet.

jacobsta811

AFAIK Fidelity Amex still has $50 signup bonus - best was only $25 more. But Manufacturing at 2% is kind of crappy - barely worth the effort, especially if you actually take into account vehicle depreciation & expenses and value your time at any value at all.

hamhead

Since you know about MS, frankly I'm surprised you'd say such a thing given cards like Wells Fargo 5x or Old Blue exist.

I clear $1.5k a month in cash back, month in and month out.

And I lol-d at 30% rate of return on ETFs historically. Someone hasn't been investing very long. Bull markets like the past four years make everyone think they are stock picking geniuses.

philemer

Some people have high expenses, such as business owners. Plus, MS of course.

flyer4512

15 - 30% historically ? First that's huge window and as someone who has been in the market since 1984 I say quite your day job and just invest because your number put the pros to shame.

Now if historically to you is 3/9/2009 to present it may be a different story

For me historically includes Black Monday in 1987, the Dot com crash of 2000 and of course the 55% drop from mid 2007 - early 2009

My guess is within 3 years another major correction will be added to that list unless the extend QE

philemer

We're getting Off Topic fast. Please, back to original topic. Cash out UR or not. Thanks.

skibum7732

If you know what you are doing, you can do waaaay more than that and many of us here do just that every month.

bribro

To each his own, but I think most would agree that you're doing it wrong OP. My UR redemptions net me a minimum of 4 cpp, which means it would take me over 5 years compounding at your impossible-to-maintain 30% to come out ahead with a cash back redemption.

Let's do the math: I need to buy a $1,000 plane ticket, but could instead use 25,000 miles, for a 4 cpp redemption. If, using your strategy, I redeemed those 25k points for a $250 statement credit, and I compounded at 30% (which is impossible), I'd have $928.24 after five years. If you assume a much more reasonable 10% annual return, it would take almost 15 years to come out ahead.

Just curious, how are your ETFs doing so far this year? Tickers?

mia

If you really want to do the math, you should adjust for the miles you would have earned if you had purchased a ticket (distance miles, status bonus, class of service bonus, credit card spend, credit card category bonus, etc). When I do this I find that a "100,000" mile transatlantic business class ticket really costs ~125,000 miles.

bobloadmire

I get that airlines are a great deal, I obviously churn AA and have companion pass and 100k SWRR as well as Delta. I put around 5k a month in CC spending for churning. I can't turn those into cash and I can't get enough vacation time to expend that many points with my wife and I. Same for hotels. We have a shitton of IHG, Mariott etc, I can't use all of the points. So i'm set with airline and hotel points, and I conced thier value. I have had 200k sitting in my chase account for over a year and haven't done a damn thing with them, so I might as well invest them.

QQQ, VTI, VO a few other mutual funds. 10yr history on VTI is 90% QQQ is 180%. Though we all know past performance has no impact on future performance.

you better mean cash back, not reward points. Please tell. I can't spend all of my reward points if I tried.

Sure 15% is optimistic, 30% was outlandish. I overstepped.

I do all of those cards as well. Just finished Wellsfargo and have had Blue. How do you clear 1.5k a month in cash back? No one is telling the secret, just making the claim. And you better mean cash back, not reward points.

Unfortunately, this is dead, no sign on bonus.

Again, claims, but no data. How are you doing this?