percysmith

Similar "rumors" abound for AE too i.r.o. CX Amex Elite access into Plaza Premium's East/West lounges (subsequently denied by AE)

https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/23803
https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/23816

QRC3288

To entertain this dreaming Diamond, would it be possible for CX to have a "Marco Polo Lounge", exclusively for "invitation Only"? In addition to its other J and F lounges? And that invitation would be extended to CX Diamond members and CX F only passengers. This is precisely what was, admittedly 18 months ago and by a junior management employee, conveyed to me was under consideration. Given the long length of time between then and now, and the fact The Deck seems to be a biz lounge, I assume that idea was BS.

I agree, the problems with lower level staff is rumors are frequently wrong. The fellow conveying this info to me doesn't sit near John Slosar. I have met this younger fellow on a few occasions, and he easily could've been blowing smoke (we were drinking a decent amount of wine at the time) - I suspected he was looking for a job switch.

However, when I have been in possession of what I consider genuinely material information, I cannot post it...and realistically neither can others if they land some juicy scoop. So we are really only left with the ability to post from more junior type staff rumor things, but certainly may or may not be true! The type of stuff that many CX staff are aware of or rumors are swirling internally, etc. I wouldn't say rumors are always wrong, just they aren't always right, either.

Hottub Cowboy

There have been complaints lately on the Amex FB page (HK) about Plaza managers letting friends and regulars from the Plaza Lounges into the Amex Plat/Centurion sections after 6pm.

"Bruce C Amex: Why are the Plaza Premium managers like a Karen Yim letting friends into the Centurion section of the lounge which is reserved for Centurion Card holders. She and some other Plaza staff are also letting in non Platinum cardholders into the lounge. This happens a lot in the evenings of late. This should not be permitted."

fakecd

wishful DMs stop dreaming as numbers dont lie.

what is larger?:
1) present value of all future incremental revenue CX can derive from its DM or F pax choosing CX solely and exclusively over other option solely due to DM/F only lounge, vs

2) present value of all future cashflow of lounge access fee CX charge for access derived from space that is being considered for such lounge

CX wont introduce. they are not dumb (even they are incomptent) cuz if option 1) was true they wud have done it already... just think about it, how well would your corp travel agent take if u said "i want to fly CX paying $xyz more than others cuz i can use their super F lounge"... it wont get past the policy

and sort of segment that actually pay ex-HKG J/F prices couldnt give rats arrse on its decision being influenced by such lounge

percysmith

@fakecd I agree - CX more keen to provide a lounge than an attractive one. Haagen-Dazs mentality.

ermen

The more I think about it, the more I think it is IMPOSSIBLE that CX introduce a DM only lounge within the constraints of the OW agreement.

Sure they could introduce an exclusive DM+ only lounge (i.e. a small subset within the OWE tier, like BA CCR / QF Chairmans Lounge), but I am pretty sure they cannot discriminate in favour of their own basic OWE members versus the others. Otherwise we would see BA (most customer unfriendly airline) do it (limit access even to Galleries F) and QF too (their SYD / MEL F lounges are superb).

Some will say that CX DM (OWE) have a higher average spend than the average OWE. I guess is tough luck that DMs are just a victim of the economic demographic - there are so many ibanks / consulting firms / law firms / hongs that can afford the airfares to make their employees DM. And CX is probably constrained by the OW rules in limiting the number of OWE super elites (i.e. DM+)

The solution would be to leave OW and join *A. Then there will be no constraints in designating the F lounges for DM members.

DMPHL

Nope, ONLY those traveling in F on QR or a OW airline can access Al Safwa.

brunos

The confusion stems from the lounge name.
QR F lounge in DOH is a subpar lounge (well below the Al Mourjan lounge, dedicated to J pax but not accessible on status). It is accessible to any OWE. But the Al Safwa lounge is reserved by F pax on QR and any OW airline. Just lik ein LHR, where BA F lounge is accessible to any OWE, while the CCR is dedicated to F pax.

brunos

Hong Kong is the land of rumors.
But here we are talking about a rumor from a head waiter of a contracted caterer, not a junior CX management staff.

Cambo

OT: I see a lot of hype for a DM only lounge at HKG, though, what is the need for such a specialty ?

A dedicated F lounge, without economy DM's or OWE's, like BA/CCR and LH, I can understand.

QRC3288

(Off topic)
The main problem (argued by folks like me) is that many F passengers are some of CX's lowest yielders: the mileage brigade. Meanwhile, CX has cut F to a lot of mainline destinations so you have very high yielding passengers not necessarily in F. And lastly, DMs are (this factor doesn't necessarily reflecting well on us as a group) one of, if not the highest yielding premium cohort of any major global frequent flyer program. Piss them off at your own risk (more on that below). We still stick with CX and MPC despite the disadvantages of the program for a number of reasons.

By opening an F only lounge, you essentially let guys who buy miles on Alaska to raid your F lounge while delegating Diamonds, who may spent 50-100k a year and are insanely high yielding regardless if they're not in F, to a "lesser" lounge. The fear in CX is this would be a bad economic move for MPC and CX, and alienate CX's most lucrative cohort by far. As for insulting the "economy DMs" again, I'd say the jury is firmly back on that and doesn't agree with you. CX would, if it could, redo their move to discriminate against them. Turns out, partner J class and LCC Y class "free agent" travelers DONT yield as much as your own Diamonds, even the guys who flew Y. What a surprise! You mean to say a guy buying 2-3k USD J class tickets (over 4 sectors!) or burning Avios in J or F is worth less than an "economy class DM" paying 2-3k for an economy or premium economy ticket to JFK? The heresy!

In practice, OF COURSE a guy willing to spend 2-3k again and again and again for an economy or PEY ticket is worth more than a mileage-running, points-burning, or reposition for a cheapo J class ticket flyer. But this logic was lost on CX as they rejiggered the program, and this logic frequently gets lost in the semantics of these forums and blogs. After all, the blogs and FT do help us travelers get better deals. I'd say the prevailing bloggers/FT logic, simplified but in general, is "the class ticketed determines the passenger value (regardless of value received by airline and yield achieved for seat)". This is, just being candid, totally flawed (although self serving to the community that propagates it).

ermen

How many F seats are there daily? And how many % are from the mileage brigade? Maybe 2/6 seats or say 33% at most. They are not in the majority. Ok then assume 2 F seats go empty each flight, they then become 50% of the cabin. But the dynamic and analysis changes - CX is unable to fill the F cabin, and the redemption seats are just there to drive incremental yield for an otherwise empty (read zero revenue) seat.

CX elites are purportedly the highest spenders amongst most airlines. I dont dispute that. But therein lies the bigger problem - how does an airline which boasts of highest average spend amongst their loyal customers, come around and then complain about yields??

Mathematically, that is hard to reconcille (unless they are of course running at severe overcapacity and are doing deep discounts for the non-elite capacity), which of course leads to another conundrum - CX puts on too much capacity to serve its FF elites (its their strategy on business frequency), but inadvertently, these high spending business elites are contributing to the yield decline by procuring extra capacity on their routes.

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HarbourGent

Good points as usual QRC3288 but I think one issue here is that there is no "plan". Rather than starting from a strategic endpoint with a clear set of behavioural pathways which would follow the MPC changes, it seems they were cobbled together in an effort to resolve certain specific problems in CX's current business. Not only are those problems non-strategic, they are also problems for Cathay ("we don't make enough money") rather than problems from the passenger's perspective (no passenger was saying "I wish my FFP was downgraded further so it finally gives me a push despite geographic loyalty to try other airlines and discover that Cathay has been price gouging me for years.")

Attempts to reverse the mistakes are welcome, but still show piecemeal and somewhat desperate thinking, as per some of the recent discussions on renewing membership levels far below threshold.

At this point there is little evidence that Cathay has a well thought through "plan" about how to maximise the value of their passengers in ways which don't just damage their business down the line. I think there is more to this than just revenue: loading up on China routes through Dragonair years ago may have made sense then but it has meant that Cathay planes are now stuffed with low yielding mainland groups, food cost savings are surely offset by passengers going elsewhere because of low food quality as even a cursory examination of these boards shows, and so on. But the revenue and passenger loyalty strategy which ought to be both central to Cathay's thinking and also pretty simple to generate (they did it for decades) is almost totally invisible to date.

TravelwhileyouEat

Personally, I prefer that CX have the following lounge set-up in HKG (it's free to dream )

1. A lounge for OW First regardless of status and DM with a small private area for CX / KA First passengers (which would be beneficial during high traffic times)
2. A lounge that only allows those travelling on CX / KA business regardless of status and GO and SL (the pier would be my choice but the location is a bit tough for certain gates)
3. An F lounge for OWE
4. A J lounge for OWS, and those travelling on OW business regardless of status (probably The Cabin)
5. The satellite concourse (G16 / 'The Deck') should be open to all because of the distance from other gates

Theoretically, CX can do this by designating certain lounges as OWE and OWS but others as not, just like what QR does in Doha. This allows them to allow DM / GO / SL access to non-OW system lounges while keeping equivalent status from other programs out.

1010101

I've long thought CX should have an F/DM+ only lounge but otherwise i cant see them restricting access. Someone may have raised the idea but the accountants who see the fees they receive from other airlines will have something to say about it.