FlyPointyEnd

Not saying that was the case, but like for Cathay Dragon 666's case, he is a DM (i think) so it would be unlikely for CX to cancel his account....unlike if all your miles are from CCs and mostly used to redeem for other other people. If it were in reverse, you redeem mostly for yourself, and have occasional redemptions for other people maybe that would impact the perception that you are not selling your miles?

QRC3288

Alaska was cutting off people's accounts in 2015-2016, and it seemed a major flag was transfers in from SPG. So I would still maintain a bit of caution.

I bought about 10k USD worth of Alaska miles - sanctioned purchases I'll add, aka I pay cash to Alaska and they give me miles - and looked into this issue thanks to another poster here alerting me to it. Wasn't really keen to lose $10k if Alaska was just willy-nilly cutting off people's accounts. What gave me confidence might give you a little concern; it seemed the pattern wasn't Alaska targeting people buying miles from them with cash (makes sense), but rather people who had transferred in a lot of points, particularly from SPG.

Still totally sucks for folks who legitimately transferred a bunch of points in.

1010101

BA also went through this a while ago and it still pops up from time to time.

I take the view that many airlines can, and currently are, devaluing miles at a fair rate, so there's no sense sitting on huge balances. Especially if there is a risk they might cancel them too.

Ben Wu

Actually I called them one day before my account canceled. I was going to book a ticket for myself from Beijing to Frankfurt, and I didn't make it because the surcharge is ridiculously high (5000HKD). I wonder if that is the trigger.

I live in Australia and my account was open in Australia, and all the miles were transferred from an Australia credit card. But they sent me the notification of canceling my account IN CHINESE (luckily I do read Chinese), while all other correspondences were in English. I guess there must be something to do with my intended flight departing from Beijing.

I called the customer service and was advised that the account is under investigation. and they cannot give me a timeframe. I lodged a complaint to NSW Fair Trading, a government agency in Australia. Hope it works.

Anyone knows how to draw media attention? I reckon this as a commercial fraud. I transferred all my credit card point to asiamile in October because they were going to reduce the transfer ratio, that's why I keep so much miles in the accout. After inducing me to transfer my point they simply close my account because their terms and conditions allow them to do so. I am not sure if this kind of terms and conditions comply with consumer laws in jurisdictions (should be the Australian one in my case?).

percysmith

I won't conflate devaluations with confiscations.

Devaluations are relatively public affairs, does not result in total loss of miles, and some notice or transition period is usually included.

Confiscations are fundamentally different - private, total loss of miles and sudden. Banks taking maximum advantage of possession is nine-tenths of the law to shut you down first and ask (answer) questions later.

percysmith

Ben:

If I have them I will get all the family documentation in order and send them to the account executive who sent you the shutdown email.

I will also send them your own because one possibility is mistaken identity. Possible if your name is a common Chinese name, and you have the misfortune of being identically named with some non-compliant member. AM is also cracking down on identity splitting https://www.asiamiles.com/am/en/abou...0007d21c39RCRD (formerly, traders can get around redemption list clearing fees by opening multiple accounts, your account may have been (wrongly) flagged as a duplicate account of a trader).

I don't think your aborted revenue booking had anything to do with it. They somehow flagged your account after it met certain criteria. Revenue booking is unlikely to be a flag.

I will leave legal or regulatory recourse until the executive reaffirms his/her decision, as is the case of Alex Ng in hongkongcard.

In any case your NSW residence is tricky. OFT has no jurisdiction over a company that has no presence in Australia - AM's office is in HK and you cannot pursue CX in lieu. I think same goes for ACCC. Press isn't hard - Apply Daily or Oriental Daily here will probably take your story but I would say wait for final word first.

QRC3288

Unbelievable.....

Saying this a little tongue and cheek, but when it's all over you absolutely should ask for some Asia Miles as compensation for this waste of your time

TProphet

Alaska froze accounts (and still freezes them) when they suspected fraud - for example, brand new account purchases or transfers a ton of miles today and then books a one way premium class ticket leaving tomorrow for Nigeria in a name other than the account holder. There's about a 99% chance that this is fraudulent, and Alaska was right to freeze these. On the rare occasions it was legit, they unfroze the accounts.

They also stopped allowing mileage purchases from Australia since savvy Aussies were buying Alaska miles and using them to book premium cabins on Qantas for a substantial discount. Qantas understandably took umbrage to this and Alaska responded appropriately.

I have seen a handful of other cases where Alaska has shut down accounts of people who were blatantly churning BofA credit cards. For example, brand new Alaska account and 4 credit cards applied for at the same time, both sets duplicate. This is against the Terms of Service and Alaska wasn't having it. It's moot now because BofA updated their procedures to prevent this from happening.

Alaska usually doesn't shut people down without a good reason. They're conservatively run; if you have something legitimately coming to you, it's very rare you don't get it.

Ausriver

My guess would be that OP never actually credited any miles to Asia Miles by flying. Another word = they haven't varied any of OP's identities. I am not sure what triggered the closure but any one could open unlimited asia mile accounts under any names and sell to up to 5 people each account using miles earned from credit card or partners.

And if you've never removed someone from your redemption list, it would hardly be a big case and I'm sure they will re-open your account after verifying your IDs.

ermen

Hehe don't think this is true for AS and Australians anymore

Ben Wu

Followed your advice. Sent them some evidences, mostly records of traveling together.

Thanks!

percysmith

By documentation I was thinking more in the lines of birth certificates and marriage certificates. Send those if you can.

garykung

As a fact, many courts in the world have found these contract clauses unenforceable due to its arbitrary nature. For example, while many companies claim they have the right to forfeit and/or terminate, courts in fact rule against them on that.

That's why AM claimed OP selling miles to establish a for-cause forfeiture/termination.

Statutory Declarations only work in the court of law, as only the court can enforce the penalty of perjury.

They don't work when they are not used in relationship of a pending lawsuit as admissible evidence.

Even I am not an Australian, NSW Fair Trading will never work as it lacks jurisdiction.

CXLP (which operates AM) is a Hong Kong company. NSW Fair Trading only deals with issues within NSW.

ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) is where you should start.

It is not the time for the media attention. As no one knows what CXLP has against you, it is best to keep this under the radar.

Absolutely not - as you are nothing "commercial".

Actually, the choice of law is Hong Kong, not Australia.

Hong Kong is known to be weak on consumer protection. Many issues have to be dealt with by using common law principal.

Nicc HK

These are on Page 16 of the Membership Guide.

Membership Termination
1. Members may terminate their membership at any time by giving written
notice to CPLP and returning their membership card, at which time any
outstanding Club miles/sectors will be cancelled.
2. CPLP may forthwith terminate the membership of a Member and
the right of a Member to use his/her membership card and use The
Club facilities if a Member commits misconduct or fraud, misuses the
Asia Miles programme benefits and awards, misuses The Club of its
facilities and services or fails to follow these terms and conditions. In such
circumstances, CPLP shall simultaneously cancel all Club miles/sectors of
the Member.
3. CPLP may also terminate The Club membership of a Member at its
complete discretion and in such circumstances will provide the Member
with 3 to 6 months notice of termination. Upon expiry of the notice period,
all unused Club miles/sectors will be cancelled. Without prejudice to the
foregoing, CPLP may alternatively at its discretion forthwith terminate or
suspend a Member’s right to use specified facilities, benefits or services
of The Club, with the Member retaining his/her overall membership in
The Club.
4. Termination of membership for whatever reason shall be without prejudice
to the accrued rights and remedies of CPLP, CPA and the Member as at the
date of termination.
5. Membership for individuals who remain inactive or fall below the minimum
travel criteria as outlined in the membership guide for a membership period
of 12 months will be terminated.

Law and Jurisdiction
1. These terms and conditions and the relationship between CPLP and/or
CPA and each Member are governed by Hong Kong law. By using The Club
each Member submits to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the Hong Kong
courts.

percysmith

Is this Amex AU Membership Rewards Ascent --> Gateway devaluation on 31 Oct 2015?

I don't see the relevance of "inducing" even if it existed. I can be induced into buying a lifetime gym membership but that does not allow me to demand a refund if and when I feel like it.