Involuntary Upgrade Priorities / "CIV" score
Jun 18, 2014, 5:25 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 19
Involuntary Upgrade Priorities / "CIV" score
Through this forum on and off, there have been threads discussing exactly how involuntary upgrade works and how priority for upgrade is determined at the check-in counters. Ideas posted include your boarding number, club tier / oneworld status or even the whim of the agent on duty. I thought I’d post a quick update on some developments that are happening here.
As you may be aware, CX is investing in a new Departure Control System. That’s the system that actually checks you in and manages boarding etc. This new system is being progressively rolled out on a country by country basis this year. The new system has significantly more advanced capabilities than the old one. One of these, is the capability to make the current involuntary upgrade arrangement into a systematic and structured process. This is made available through a customer score built in the system that can influence priority. Without going into too much detail (and deliberately so, so no need to ask), such a score would be derived from things like purchase history, date of last travel and so forth.
As countries cutover to the new system progressively this year, this score will be used worldwide as a systematic tool to prioritize involuntary upgrade where that operational need arises.
As you may be aware, CX is investing in a new Departure Control System. That’s the system that actually checks you in and manages boarding etc. This new system is being progressively rolled out on a country by country basis this year. The new system has significantly more advanced capabilities than the old one. One of these, is the capability to make the current involuntary upgrade arrangement into a systematic and structured process. This is made available through a customer score built in the system that can influence priority. Without going into too much detail (and deliberately so, so no need to ask), such a score would be derived from things like purchase history, date of last travel and so forth.
As countries cutover to the new system progressively this year, this score will be used worldwide as a systematic tool to prioritize involuntary upgrade where that operational need arises.
Jun 18, 2014, 6:07 pm
#5
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tokyo, Vancouver, Hong Kong, Dublin
Programs: CX DM
Posts: 880
Not sure what the purpose of OP's post is if nothing about the new system or old system is being disclosed.
Speaking in my limited Japanese with ground staff my kids have over time befriended at HND, I understand that HND will be the first port to have this new system later on this month, with the main system coming online around mid-November.
When I mentioned that I like getting as BN1 partly because it's currently used in the tie-breaks but mostly because I like the aesthetic of having a BN1 on my boarding pass, I was told that under the new system, if you do get an op-up, the BN number will change (to something much higher, of course).
This won't affect anyone else on this board probably but I am a little sad about this
Speaking in my limited Japanese with ground staff my kids have over time befriended at HND, I understand that HND will be the first port to have this new system later on this month, with the main system coming online around mid-November.
When I mentioned that I like getting as BN1 partly because it's currently used in the tie-breaks but mostly because I like the aesthetic of having a BN1 on my boarding pass, I was told that under the new system, if you do get an op-up, the BN number will change (to something much higher, of course).
This won't affect anyone else on this board probably but I am a little sad about this
Jun 18, 2014, 6:08 pm
#6
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
score *only* affects invol upgrade/downgrade? if then, dont care much. especially after bidding for upgrade. this has always been a black box and we dont have to fight for BN1 anymore. which isnt a bad idea.
If opup happens then i'll celebrate
If opup happens then i'll celebrate
Jun 18, 2014, 6:08 pm
#7
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
^^^ LOL!
Not sure what the purpose of OP's post is if nothing about the new system or old system is being disclosed.
Speaking in my limited Japanese with ground staff my kids have over time befriended at HND, I understand that HND will be the first port to have this new system later on this month, with the main system coming online around mid-November.
When I mentioned that I like getting as BN1 partly because it's currently used in the tie-breaks but mostly because I like the aesthetic of having a BN1 on my boarding pass, I was told that under the new system, if you do get an op-up, the BN number will change (to something much higher, of course).
This won't affect anyone else on this board probably but I am a little sad about this
Speaking in my limited Japanese with ground staff my kids have over time befriended at HND, I understand that HND will be the first port to have this new system later on this month, with the main system coming online around mid-November.
When I mentioned that I like getting as BN1 partly because it's currently used in the tie-breaks but mostly because I like the aesthetic of having a BN1 on my boarding pass, I was told that under the new system, if you do get an op-up, the BN number will change (to something much higher, of course).
This won't affect anyone else on this board probably but I am a little sad about this
Jun 18, 2014, 6:37 pm
#8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver/ows, CX AsiaMiles (not even GR anymore!) missing my GO days
Posts: 1,581
We should at least be grateful that this time AgencyGuy/his employer isn't wasting our time by asking for input on an initiative that's already been decided anyway.
This should broadly retain the importance of club tier, I would think, since the higher you've made it in MPO, the more you're spending relative to others. In which case CIV score rather than BN becomes the tiebreaker within tiers. The biggest issue I see for some is at the border between tiers -- it's conceivable that a GO with a premium-heavy travel pattern who consistently just misses out on DM could have a higher CIV than some DMs. This could also weed out of the op-up queue "fake" Amex status members, depending on how CX assigns a value to their business.
One potential pitfall is if the new system prioritizes other oneworld elites over MPO members, given that we've seen anecdotal reports here that CX does have ways of tracking revenue generated by pax in other programs. The suggestion was that they already put emerald/sapphire ahead of MPO SL in the old pecking order, but if they start putting emerald ahead of MPO GO (self-interest alert!) it'll be annoying. CX gets not only our revenue but also a treasure trove of data about us and our travel patterns when we join MPO -- surely in exchange for handing that commercial data to CX vs another oneworld carrier, we can get higher priority in the op-up queue.
This should broadly retain the importance of club tier, I would think, since the higher you've made it in MPO, the more you're spending relative to others. In which case CIV score rather than BN becomes the tiebreaker within tiers. The biggest issue I see for some is at the border between tiers -- it's conceivable that a GO with a premium-heavy travel pattern who consistently just misses out on DM could have a higher CIV than some DMs. This could also weed out of the op-up queue "fake" Amex status members, depending on how CX assigns a value to their business.
One potential pitfall is if the new system prioritizes other oneworld elites over MPO members, given that we've seen anecdotal reports here that CX does have ways of tracking revenue generated by pax in other programs. The suggestion was that they already put emerald/sapphire ahead of MPO SL in the old pecking order, but if they start putting emerald ahead of MPO GO (self-interest alert!) it'll be annoying. CX gets not only our revenue but also a treasure trove of data about us and our travel patterns when we join MPO -- surely in exchange for handing that commercial data to CX vs another oneworld carrier, we can get higher priority in the op-up queue.
Jun 18, 2014, 7:41 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: CX GO (in hibernation mode), AA EXP, SPG GO, HH DM
Posts: 316
One potential pitfall is if the new system prioritizes other oneworld elites over MPO members, given that we've seen anecdotal reports here that CX does have ways of tracking revenue generated by pax in other programs. The suggestion was that they already put emerald/sapphire ahead of MPO SL in the old pecking order, but if they start putting emerald ahead of MPO GO (self-interest alert!) it'll be annoying. CX gets not only our revenue but also a treasure trove of data about us and our travel patterns when we join MPO -- surely in exchange for handing that commercial data to CX vs another oneworld carrier, we can get higher priority in the op-up queue.
Jun 18, 2014, 7:44 pm
#10
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey
Programs: BA GOLD, HILTON DIAMOND, BONVOY L/T GOLD,
Posts: 306
For diamond members such as myself, these changes will probably discourage me from keeping my status. Here is why.
I am a Y flying diamond, I fly a lot but generally in economy (at best Y+ LH).
Diamond gives me guranteed Y seats in V class - very useful. But I can get this with Gold.
Diamond gives me op-ups occasionally - but this may go away (has lessened a lot already to be honest) with this rating system
Diamond gives me the ability to open up mileage redemption seats - this will probably go away with the bidding initiative
Diamond gives me a bottle of water and a buggy (no comment)
Generally MPO is being devalued for me as a top tier member (10 year's at diamond) which I find frustrating and somewhat disappointing.
I am a Y flying diamond, I fly a lot but generally in economy (at best Y+ LH).
Diamond gives me guranteed Y seats in V class - very useful. But I can get this with Gold.
Diamond gives me op-ups occasionally - but this may go away (has lessened a lot already to be honest) with this rating system
Diamond gives me the ability to open up mileage redemption seats - this will probably go away with the bidding initiative
Diamond gives me a bottle of water and a buggy (no comment)
Generally MPO is being devalued for me as a top tier member (10 year's at diamond) which I find frustrating and somewhat disappointing.
Last edited by brithk; Jun 19, 2014 at 9:16 pm
Jun 18, 2014, 10:39 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 70
Hi SXC,
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
Jun 18, 2014, 11:25 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
Hi SXC,
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
In this case, AgencyGuy is not seeking feedback, just providing us some insider information, which I think is great for the board to know about.
Jun 18, 2014, 11:29 pm
#13
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,171
Jun 18, 2014, 11:36 pm
#14
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver/ows, CX AsiaMiles (not even GR anymore!) missing my GO days
Posts: 1,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxlondon
Hi SXC,
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
There was a lot of discussion on the BA board about this in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...r-scoring.html
In this case, AgencyGuy is not seeking feedback, just providing us some insider information, which I think is great for the board to know about.
Originally Posted by cxlondon
Hi SXC,
For those of us who dont know, would you please explain what you know about the CIV ranking system at BA and how it works?
And to the agency guy would you please comment whether this is in fact the model in which cathay are adopting, otherwise you will be seen as just stirring the pot again, like your enhance project, when it was already decided internally.
I for one did not appreciate how that introduction and request for comments was handled one bit.
Thanks
There was a lot of discussion on the BA board about this in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...r-scoring.html
In this case, AgencyGuy is not seeking feedback, just providing us some insider information, which I think is great for the board to know about.
I don't mean to attack OP personally -- I'm sure he's a nice enough guy and he's just doing his job. But he and his firm should understand that we're all just going to grow more and more irritable if they keep "engaging" with us this way.