percysmith

They call Mandarin 國語 and not 普通話

ChrisLi

More related to CX / KA: I think on those staff badges it says 國語/粵語 but not 普通話/廣東話

Cathay Boy

Actually, the preferred choice for some Taiwanese are neither Guo Yu or Pu Tong Hua, but rather Hua Yu. You can imagine who they are.

But yes, Taiwan is Guo Yu and China says Pu Tong Hua for the most part.

percysmith

I thought 华语 is what Singaporeans call Mandarin (including the Singaporean Government - 华语cool program)

Cathay Boy

Yes, it is inspired by Singapore, no surprise there, some in Taiwan wishes they can break away from China the way Singapore broke away from Malaysia.

I think this thread is getting too political for my liking, I will refrain from any more comments on this.

ernestnywang

Well...I don't know if you have realised this, but I am myself a Taiwanese, and I do not live in Taipei. I don't know much about your background, but I would hardly believe that you know more about this topic than I do. I don't know how you define "most," but for me "most" means >50%, which is definately not the case. Only about 70% of people in Taiwan have Minnan heritage (and therefore have a chance of speaking Taiwanese Minnan at home), and most of the younger ones speak Mandarin more fluently than Taiwanese Minnan. In addition, as you have said "Go outside of Taipei and you will hear people speaking primarily in Taiwanese," you probably have not experienced the countryside of Taoyuan, Hsinchu, and Miaoli, where people speak primarily in Hakka.

Thank you for the additional information. I know that of course, and I have said, "Certainly some do." However, "most" is definately not correct.

ernestnywang

Only very few people (mostly with very extreme political view) would call it 北京話 (Beijing Hua) in Taiwan. 國語 (Guo Yu) is still the most common name and the official name.

cxfan1960

I visited Taiwan quite often a few years back. Most called Mandarin 國語 (Guo Yu). I did not hear anyone call that 北京話 (Beijing Hua), but quite a few called that 普通話 (Pu Tong Hua).

Cathay Boy

I'm not going to argue Taiwan-supremacy here in FlyerTalk, but needless to say, I am originally from Taiwan and I have relatives all over Taiwan Island, and I mean all over: Tao Yuan, Hua Lien, Tai-Chung, Tainan, Koushung, Ping-Tong, etc. And yes, I do realize the Hakka regions of Taiwan as I have a few aunts who are "Hakka" people, and yes, when they gather they speak in Hakka.

Like I said, when I visit my relatives outside of Taipei, save the Hakka regions, they speak primarily Taiwanese. While it is true the younger generations speak Mandarin, but again, outside Taipei, they speak in Taiwanese more often than Mandarin. And yes I do roam the streets and hear mostly Taiwanese vs. Mandarin (again, outside of Taipei.)

The irony is I am not good in Taiwanese, so when I'm around they tend to speak Mandarin (or as they would say: Taiwan-Mandarin) for my benefit, but what I say is based on what I have observed.

ernestnywang

Sorry I know this is going OT but let me clarify this. My problem with Cathay Boy's statement goes back to this:
This statement neither excludes the Greater Taipei Region (Taipei, New Taipei, Keelung) nor the "Hakka Block" (Taoyuan, Hsinchu County, Miaoli), which together already consist about 40% of the population. Of course, I know between Changhua and Pingtung (which is about another 40% of the population) Taiwanese Minnan is indeed the more dominant speech, but that is very different from "Most Taiwanese." I take that most people would not use or comprehend the word "most" as anything less than or about 50%.

I speak both Mandarin and Taiwanese Minnan fluently and can also get by with Hakka, and I use whichever language used by the person I talk to. Based on my experience (I believe I spend more time in Taiwan than you do - 4-5 months per year), Mandarin is still the preferred choice for most people, especially at workplace. Even though the place I live, Hsinchu City, is surrounded by the "Hakka block," the city itself actually has more people with Minnan heritage than Hakka heritage.

Cathay Boy, I would assume that you have Minnan origin, and therefore have relatives speaking to each other in Taiwanese Minnan, which is common. However, please also keep in mind that your experience is therefore biased as you would visit your relatives in places that are traditionally classfied as "Minnan villages" and therefore have more people speaking Taiwanese Minnan.

Cathay Boy

Nope. I have a very mixed family, it should be the model family for all Taiwan residents, LOL.

My father's side is what is now known as "Outer Province People" or Why-Shen-Ren

My mother's side is what is known as "Taiwanese" people, not aboriginals.

Then a few of my uncles married Hakka people in Taoyuan.

This is why my language is Mandarin and I'm pretty amateurish at Taiwanese (though I know enough to get by) and do not know Hakka at all.

(Of course now that I have added Hong Kong relatives to my family, I'm doing a true unification.)

Taipei

I woud add Urban Kaoshuing working popluation will speak Mandarin first (exception the small group that does not speak Manadarin mostly older people). Our office, in Kaoshuing everyone can speak Taiwanese fluently, in Taipei not so, but everyone used Manadrin first. I work in Kaoshuing durning the week in our office almost everyone will speak Mandarin first, but the big difference from northern Taiwan, is that almost everyone speaks Taiwanese with ease(not the case in Taipei as Taiwanese is used a lot less). Also keep in mind there are small differences in Taiwanese for different areas in Taiwan. Also in some areas of Kaoshuing county/Pingtung county are Hakka areas, but many Hakka are tri lingual and Hakka is not thier first language. Many Taiwanese forget the Hakka in Southern Taiwan (see 高雄市客家文物館), and assume if your Hakka your from Hsinchu-Maoli areas.

ernestnywang

Sorry for the wrong assumption. Nonetheless, I would therefore make another guess that members on your father's side speak Mandarin to each other. Again, my point is not that there isn't a substantial Taiwanese Minnan population in Taiwan, which is true, but that the word "most" is too much of an exageration. I would also like to remind you that using the word "Taiwanese" to refer to only those of Minnan heritage and exclude other people in Taiwan is not only rude but also politically incorrect. Hakka, Mainlander (Waishengren), and aborigines living in Taiwan are all Taiwanese people.

Thank you for reminding us of those Hakka living in Qishan, Meinong, Liudui and their vicinities. I, of course, know that there are some Hakka people living there, and so does parts of Taichung and parts of Hualien. However, their proportion is much smaller, and I was trying to tell Cathay Boy that there are actually a lot of non-Taiwanese Minnan speakers from Taipei to Miaoli as they are already about 40% of Taiwan's population.

Taipei

Since this post, our Kaoshuing office staff spends more time in our Beijing offices. We use the term Beijing Hua more now, but it not really means Mandarin (but does by default) but more so the Beijing/ Northern China accent which is quite diffeerent from the accent (Mandarin) in Taiwan/Southern China.

sl0uch