Rumor (or Plan): JFK Services to be Reduced
 

A CX sales rep came into our TA office yesterday to discuss several promotional fares to be combined together with tour packages. During the discussion, the gentlemen also mentioned a move that is currently being discussed in upper management that at this time is being planned but has not been confirmed. That plan to reduce the number of weekly flights ex-JFK from 21x weekly to 14x weekly. CX888/889 is planned to fly only HKG-YVR-HKG with YVR-JFK-YVR portion to be eliminated. CX841 then is planned to be retimed into an evening ex-JFK nonstop. Thus the carrier can still maintain an option for passengers who prefer night departures for the sake of convenient connections in HKG while at the same time reduce frequency in response to the global economy crisis and keeping two daily nonstops.

Basically he stated, passenger loads on those traveling just between YVR and JFK has never been promising and with the availability of two 2 daily nonstops available, there is very little incentive for passengers to take the 1-stop over the nonstops and having CX888/9 only fly as far as YVR will also save them in fuel.

correct me if i am wrong, but for arguments sake lets say they changed the 2pm flight nonstop to a 8 pm nonstop...wouldnt that arrive into hk at 1am?
that seems like a horrible time to arrive to an international destination...on the other hand it seems like all flights from north america into India also get in around midnight.

oh no! when is this going to happen?

I dunno. The only reason I've used the 889/888 route is that during the summer the fares were typically $100-200 cheaper for same fare class in my experience. The one-stop has always been inconvenient in my opinion.

This definitely makes sense given the drop in demand, but the flight timings are going to be tricky, particularly in the summer to Asia and winter from Asia. A 1am departure from JFK would arrive HKG at 5am+2, I guess that might work.
Back from HKG, it would be even more difficult (later departure and/or even earlier arrival).

I do like the current late-night 888 flight. I haven't had the opportunity to fly it myself since the new timing went into effect, but I have flown HKG-LAX-JFK to accomplish the same thing -- a full day of work in both HKG and NY. This was before 840 existed, which I guess allows almost a full day in HKG; maybe they just push that departure an hour or so later, since they won't need the aircraft for the return to HKG until very late.

Of course one good thing about the 1-stop that will be missed is the looooong flight time to enjoy the F product/service (if you are in F...)!

I think it makes sense for them to discontinue the service of CX 888/9 between YVR and JFK when there are currently 2 nonstop flights available from JFK to HKG. I was on board CX 888 from HKG to JFK via YVR in mid January and I found out that most passengers on that flight were only YVR bound. There were around 50-60 passengers continue on from YVR to JFK. Also, I have noticed that there was not a single First Class passenger from YVR to JFK on that particular flight.

Yes, that would make sense. I have been on 889 a couple of times in the past 6 months, the J/F load is bad.

Hope CX Mgmt can get the 840/841 re-time to work, I would like to see an evening ex-JFK.

I never thought that CX888/889 (the YVR-JFK) sector makes sense, when they already have two non-stop flights. It is not like those non-stop flights are so full that they are spilling customers into CX888/889.

I believe CX will time CX841 to a 1am departure (evening departures do not work, as it arrives HK at night, and kills all connection availability, pretty much like CX885 when it was available). It also makes more sense for nonstop overnight flight than daytime flight, in terms of popularity.

Question: Is there a closing time for T7 in JFK? Would CX need to change terminal with the new schedule?

Might be
 

I think the main problem is terminal 7 - the space is pretty tight, and in terms of immigration service, I don't think INS at T-7 operates 24 hours. The only terminal with a 24 hours INS/Custom service is terminal four. So for a late night HKG to JFK flight will be rather difficult.

For the summer, a midnight departure will result in a 4am arrival at JFK, and winter is a bit better. However, not sure if a 2am departure from HKG is desirable too. The Wing (not to mention the F section, since JFK is typically a heavy premium flight) will have to remain open till late (and increased CX cost), not to mention the possibility of a "delay" in HK if a tail wind is forecast, or to sit on the plane at JFK till 6am to wait for INS to open. A move to terminal four may also increase CX cost (even an arrangement to have the plane deplaned at T-4 and then tow back to T-7 for departure may be costly... and not to mention confusing to most passengers). If CX moves to T-4, it will have to find a new ground agent, a new lounge arrangement...

I have heard conflicting information regarding YVR to JFK flights - some said cargo is pretty good and that's why they kept it. Not to mention AC has moved all YVR to NYC flight from JFK to EWR. In the summer season, JFK is pretty heavy and 888/9 becomes busy. I have heard low load at CX 888/9, but also heard friends flying only YVR-JFK get op-up due to a 100% loading.

Anyway, I will miss CX 888/9...

Carfield

Seems like this move should have been a long time coming once the 777 non-stops showed up a few years back

The current timing of 840 is just fine and don't need major tweakings since the flight gets in the evening anyways which can then sit for several hours and do the turnaround past midnight for the nonstop back to HKG.

As for INS at T7, there is a BA flight arriving at 10:30 pm so I would assume there will still be INS presence between 11-midnight. So if they decide to push back the arrival time of the incoming flight by an hour or two, it can still play out.

But I definately agree that it is pointless to have a 1-stop when two nonstops have been running for a while, especially during tough economic conditions.

Anyways should the plan indeed be put, there will be a balance of frequency among all 3 US Gateways - 2x daily a piece.

If they're doing this, they better do it after my Dad flew it or yet another of his F flights disappears! :(

So if 888/889 gets cut back to HKG/YVR/HKG only, do you think that CX will also continue with the 838/839 (A343) service or combine loads on to the one flight?

I do think there is still demand for YVR-JFK vv sector. I suggest CX still operate YVR-JFK, but reduced frequency (i.e. 3-4 days a week). However this may confuse passengers going to JFK on CX888.

I hope not before the summer. :mad: I am booked JFK-YVR-JFK in June/July.

Thats right ! im flying CX 888 HKG-YVR and CX 839 YVR-HKG, they are FULLY booked for may and june !!!!!! i wanted to change to CX 889 for return but its fully booked not even waiting list

Whatever happens I just hope they schedule a red eye both ways. The HKG-YYZ times have proven that a 2 am departure ex HKG works beautifully.

CX can have a nonstop departing JFK at 1am arriving HKG at 6am. Many flights from west coast have schedules like that. @:-)

That would be perfect

A top-level CX executive told a meeting of investment bankers last week that CX is working on a 'radical' solution to the drop-off in loads. This solution will focus on long-haul routes and eliminate c. 30% of capacity. It will include accelarated retirement of a substanital proportion of the fleet.

Is this the same as previous announcement?

- Eliminate B772 (but who would want them?)
- Not renew lease with 3 KA A330 and 1 A320, but then 1 A320 will enter KA this year, so that means less 3 A330

I don't see CX reducing their long-haul fleet at all.

Well, I would say how about bringing your prices back down to reasonable levels. But I guess the problem is that lower business class fares in general don't really drive additional demand near-term. The outrageous fares they (and others to be fair) have been charging over the past few years are now coming back to bite them in the a55. Companies that became "accustomed" to US$10,000 J fares probably just put blanket restrictions on travel to Asia, or international travel in general. Never mind that perhaps fares are down to the $7k range, the damage has been done.

CX is finally introducing Business Class promotions ex-USA. However, I think the price is still expensive. A roundtrip Business Class fare under promotion from JFK to HKG still costs US$7,368. As CX is having really low loads in F and J for flights between HKG and JFK, and I think they should consider reducing the J fares further. Their competitor Asiana is currently offering Business Class fares of around US$5,300 to HKG.

There is YYZ where F/J fares are more than 50% cheaper than what you'd get ex-JFK for anyone looking for discounts from the East Coast.

2010 Olympics factor
 

I doubt the company will change YVR-JFK route prior to the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver. There's only 1 other non-stop flight (AC) for that route.

The YVR-JFK route is part of the HKG-YVR-JFK route. Any change in one will also impact the other.

But the timing of the CX flight, particularly westbound, has always left a lot to be desired, which is probably one reason why the loads are typically light. It's better in winter than summer, but still a very late night arrival for those on Eastern time. Plus, CO has always served EWR-YVR seasonally (i.e., summer) and I wouldn't be surprised if they also serve the route around the Olympics.

In my experience, on JFK-YVR, loads westbound aren't particularly light - eastbound loads often are, but I've been opped-up multiple times on that flight and also witnessed oversales before receiving CX status. The timing is excellent if you're interested in traveling westbound after work. It's a late arrival, and for some, it's non optimal, but not just for myself, for many other flyers on that route, the late departure from JFK is one of the heavy advantages of that flight.

I'll be on CX888 HKG-YVR-JFK in July if it is still flying then.

A thread search revealed that, as of last fall, CX would hold passengers at the gate area at YVR during the stop. Has this changed? I assume this means that lounge-eligible pax are not even allowed lounge access?

Also, is there any type of arrival lounge the CX uses for premium pax at JFK?

Unfortunately no.

i'll be flying CX 888 too, but only HKG-YVR and CX 839 YVR-HKG
may 23rd and june 18th ! hope the service remains

What does the Olympics have to do with anything?

i guess , more people will travel ?

But not too many people are attracted to the winter olympic than the summer one, since there are way less countries participanting (at least from HK)

Im going there this may but only for holiday,not for any events.
will be departing on May 23rd CX888 back june 18 CX839
all flights are fully booked now ! i dont enjoy a full flight :mad:

full already? could it be because university graudation are around the same tme?

yes , thats what i guess so too.it was already 99% full when i booked it like 35 days ago, and if im not wrong my family took the almost the last seats on 888 and 839

since demand for HKG-YVR vv is that high, is it possible for CX to use 74A on this route (as 74A will no longer be used in Asian short-haul route due to the recent capacity cut) ?

Yes,probably but still no news yet , right ? the 77A can only carry about 300 pax and 34D about 285, but 74A can carry 380 , thats quite alot

Not even for the HKG-TPE route?