Stealing from CX planes
 

Absolutely amazed at something mentioned in the article in the latest MPC newsletter. The article reports that in the short span of a few months, 4,500 japanese cup and saucer sets went walkabout with pax, and 7,500 of those salt and pepper shakers resembling rocks disappeared with pax as well.

I know you pay an arm and a leg to sit in biz or first, but really - do you think you're entitled to make off with the whiteware and accessories? I'm sure a few pax probably asked (and were most likely quietly told just to take them), but I'm guessing the majority would have just pocketed the stuff and believed that it was their right to take it off the plane.

I'm sure that I'll cop a bit of flak for this post, and I'm certain some replies will have the "I paid a huge amount for the seat so I am entitled to take anything away that isn't bolted down". But where does this stop? Cutlery? Blankets? Noise Cancelling Headphones?

When we treat ourselves to a nice meal at a fancyish restaurant, despite the higher cost of eating there we certainly don't feel that it's our right to make off with salt and pepper shakers or the espresso cups. So what makes it different on a plane?

Do you think you're entitled to take stuff from First / Biz if it's not bolted down? At what point do you stop?

I think it's simply tacky that people do that. If you want it so bad, just go to G.O.D and get yourself a set of CX cutlery or whatever you fancy in CX F or J class. Some people just so tam sum (cantonese word) over little things like that.

I'm glad you agree!

Sometimes the sense of entitlement from F / J pax is a little inflated, to say the least.

There's a reason that the inflight magazine says "Please feel to take this with you when leaving the aircraft". and the crockery does not.

Personally I will admit to having pocketed a couple of the toothpicks for later use, and a few of the little clothes-peg type things that are designed for holding your napkin up but which are also good for clipping all sorts of things together (and feeling slightly guilty for doing so). But certainly taking any of the cutlery, crockery or condiments seems well out-of-order.

I have never swiped cutlery, salt and pepper shakers, blankets, cups or whatnot from CX or any airline, nor do I think I'm entitled to them. So... when you come to this forum to hurl your accusations, which you were you referring to? :rolleyes:

Whoa! Come down off your high horse. Ann Tyrol's use of the word "you" in its impersonal sense is perfectly normal and correct in my version of English (the original one). It's not directed at any specific person in particular.

Could it be that someone other than the PAX are taking the stuff (or that it gets lost or broken).

I remember when I used to date stews that when you went to their place often it was decked out with lots of little liquor bottles, airline blankets, airline silverware and lord knows what else from the airlines.

FTers would never do such things. :)

Your reading comprehension isn't top notch, but I'll let it slide. Do you actually think I'm accusing every FTer flying in F + J of swiping stuff?

There seem to be a lot of F + J travellers here, and I was merely canvassing to see whether this sort of pilfering was the accepted norm amongst F + J pax.

I just find it interesting that some F + J flyers (and let's clear any doubt here - I'm not "hurling accusations" at anyone on this board) think they are "above" economy travel, but not above theft :)

A friend of mine who was a cabin attendant for CX in the late 70's / early 80's said that Singaporean passengers were known to walk off with anything that wasn't fastened to the cabin interior.

At times CX sells in duty-free various service items, such as the rock shaped salt/pepper shakers (something like HKD 200 for the set). Probably other items are also available for purchase from the airline on the ground.

That's what I thought, too. We shouldn't blame it all on the passengers. A few years ago, I was introduced to a few people who worked for CX, and their houses were just full of CX stuff (cutlery, cups, plates, etc.). One of these guys even had half his living room covered with CX carpeting (I'm truly not joking). Amazes me how they get these things...

Some of that is surplus, for example when there is a change in pattern, and sold by the airline for a cheap price. I have some silverware (sterling) from BA that was bought from a surplus house, so it doesn't have to be stolen. Several airlines have sold their seats (after they were obsolete). Large items like seats or carpeting are unlikely to have been stolen and were probably bought as surplus. A house full of CX stuff must be Feng Shui heaven.

These days they count the salt and pepper shakers. I've seen FAs come back to pax and politely ask the pax to give them back.

It may be that because the airline industry is such a throwaway industry, that it gives a bit of a mentality on board that pax can take anything that's put in front of them.

I recall that the late, lamented TWA had a policy that if you had any sort of TWA stuff used in flight such as silverware, dishes, blankets, etc. you would get fired. But, it was hard to enforce unless you invited your supervisor over for dinner. I did hear about one stew who had a TWA blanket in her car when she parked in the TWA lot, a super saw it and she was history.

As to the carpeting, where do I get some CX carpets?

Maybe as a kid I used to flog knife and forks in Y. Never flog anything in J apart from those pegs they have... got like 5-6 of them sitting on my desk in the office.
Never even thought about taking those cute CX salt and pepper... Honestly... I don't see value in them coz I don't use salt and pepper.

Hotels have the same problems. It's not just CX, or Asia, but worldwide. Surely stealing is stealing? Ritz Carlton once told me they know exactly who has taken a towel or bathrobe, for example, and they decide what to about it (often nothing) on a case by case basis, but there is a "cost" factored into room rates (and I assume flight pricing) to help offset this, so we all pay.

I remember an article in a NZ (country not airline) newspaper about a pax who was stopped at immigration/customs for something like 200 items of airplane silverwear. The airline was called and the pax asked to explain exactly what they were doing with them. While crazy, I am amazed that a pax could lift that much stuff.

On a slightly more serious note, a previous pax was found with a lifejacket in their hotel room, police called, charged with theft and some other serious crime and banned from the airline for life. I guess if a plane crashes in the sea you would be a bit annoyed to find that a previous pax had made off with your lifejacket.

Mark

I don't think GOD sells the CX J and F class cutlery anymore?

I actually really want a set of the chinese tea cup and brewing cup.
Also the noodle bowl and the stand (it is statically charged so doesn't slip around).

It's a bit sad to steal from an airline - and particularly on board safety kit; for that the punishment should be serious.

I suppose some confusion can come from the many other freebies one gets (free amenity kit etc.) and the sometimes exorbitant cost of the flights people believe they should extract maximum value by continuinig the airline experience in their own homes.

Having said that, I have a nice collection of teaspoons from most of the airlines on which I have flown..........so I am totally compromised, however I did always ask if I could have them.

Usually the seasoned traveller wouldn't dare as to pilfer anything larger than the little plastic clothes peg to hold your napkin to your shirt.. but the op-up passengers.. well, that's another story.

CX crew should of course be more diligent when collecting trays.. I have a friend who worked for SQ as cabin crew and he used to berate the passenger if he finds missing items when collecting the tray even in C class...

Like: " Mr SO and SO, do you happen to know where the wonderful porcelain salt and pepper shakers have gone? They seem to have lept off your tray for some reason... maybe on the floor somewhere? Can you check? Or else I might have to get into your seat and check around.. I wouldn't want to find them in maybe the seat pocket, or maybe even in someone else's bag, you know... "

Ok.. so my friend was a little brash.. but still.

Usually the passenger is so embarrassed by such comments that the missing items mysteriously appear in the galley!

People seem to think that since they have paid for the ticket, that anything that comes with it should be taken as well.

sometimes if its a minute issue, it can be let off but its obviously not the case here. Hyatt, im told used to actually record it in your customer profile if housekeeping found bath toiletries or towels missing from the room.

has anyone been rejected in asking to take an extra amenity kit or something minute in nature?

I don't think by taking the shampoo or the bath gel they will note that down.

I'm used to stick the spring clamp(purple/plastic one) in my breast pocket after removed it... and happened to keep 5 of them so far. I'm going to put them back when I got the chance(Maybe.. next CX flight).

Hmm, so much for planning to take the full Economy Class dinner set on my forthcoming flight. :D

Why are those pegs so popular? I can't really think of anything less useful. And I'm sure that CX throw those away after one use. The cost of collecting and recycling would be less than buying new ones.

I use them as mini paper clips. Kids like them as playthings...

And I would be really quite disappointed if CX didn't reuse them. They certainly reuse or recycle the plastic cups, for example.

First, maybe I didnt read carefully, but its bad to assume that op-up's steal. I fly economy all the time (320,000 miles since Oct 2003), and I get upgraded on CX quite often. I don't think its fair to assume op-up's steal.

Second, what on earth do people do w/ items w/ airline logos on them?? Also, imagine the embarassment if I went to a friend's house for a dinner party and saw the CX salt/pepper shakers? I can't imagine what people are thinking taking items hundreds of thousands of people have seen and would recognize. Its a shame really and in no way could you even steal enough to resell on eBay or whatever to cover even 1%-3% of the cost of a ticket in First or Business.

Pathetic really that people do that kind of thing.

Lastly, how does one get the MPC newsletter? I just switched loyalty from BA Exec Club to MPC so I'm still 'green' and learning about MPC.

I know some people do pinch the odd piece here or there. Demand must be there from passengers as CX did have items for sale at one time at GOD in Hong Kong! And you can buy the salt/peppers from the on-board duty free.

I would guess there is a fair amount of breakage (you often hear things crash in the galley), and quite a bit goes missing on the ground. Every once in a while there are aircraft enthusiast fairs, and there are TONS of items that come up - from linens to plates, glassware to china. There is no way possible this stuff comes from a few pax - it is available in such numbers that it has to come from the ground.

From time to time, airlines do sell stuff second-hand. I have a luncheon service of very nice Royal Doulton from BA, sold when they changed pattern in First. The stuff is nearly indestructable, very nice, and is providing great use at home. When I bought it from BA, I was even more surprised to find the "lot" I bought had never been used before! Lucky, I guess.

Not the regulars who fly a lot and know that it's bad manners and well, unethical.

The op-ups that do are the ones CX does time to time.... the tour groups from mainland, the first timers, etc. True, sometimes even a seasoned traveller might feel like taking something sometime.. but it is better to just ask rather than just pilfer it so blatantly.

I've been on TG a few times, and people just tell the crew when they come round to take the tray that they are taking the whole set of cutlery and the crew actually say OK!

I have heard that this was a very commonplace thing on board the Concorde. Shortly before the service stopped, a lot of reporters (think Richard Quest on CNN) did little stories about the experience. One recounted a story of having flown next to a dottering old granny dripping in diamonds who, promptly after the meal service, wiped her china and flatware clean and dropped it in her handbag. She assured the reporter, or whoever, that she'd flown on the Concorde more than a dozen times and started taking things many years earlier. She proudly boasted of full Concorde placesettings for six or eight. I personally know of others who flew on the Concorde and (claim that they) did not take anything but noticed many others collecting souvenirs. Apparently, the "leakage" of on-board service items was known by the crew to get up around 50%.

Deleted

not much confusion really...
 

I too have asked if I could keep a souvenir spoon, no problems... BUT - if Items are offered for SALE, and then TAKEN without Payment, that is THEFT, plain and simple.

It would be interesting if airlines started added that note to peoples files...

Are you sure of that? They don't seem easy to clean efficiently to me (too fllimsy to go through any mass dishwasher). If they were reused I would expect to see more scratches on them. And considering that all food uplifted is thrown away, even if unopened, I wouldn't think they would care about disposable style plastic cups.

I guess I'm not totally sure, but as I said I would be very disappointed if CX didn't reuse (or at least recycle) a lot of the plastic stuff used in the meal service. Maybe this would be a good topic for an upcoming edition of the MPC magazine - CX's recycling, reuse and general environmental friendliness.

[Dom - are you reading?]

The CX plastic cups in Economy are not reused, but indeed for recycled as bulk plastic, I was told.

Firstly - I think Guy Betsy's insinuation that op-ups are the ones that steal is a little off. To me that sounds a little like the argument "only poor people steal", which of course is not true. No one really knows who pinches stuff from airlines, but given that elite cabins are usually 80-90% paying pax, adn given the numbers reported by the MPC newsletter, you surely can't assume it was only opups that did it.


Anyway, as a passenger who only ever flies biz when bumped up or when paid through miles, it wouldn't even occur to me to take the cutlery, crockery, or other miscellaneous bits and pieces. I'm just so bl**dy grateful to have a bit of legroom and peace.

VK888 - the MPC quarterly print newsletter goes out to Silver and above I think. It's not very exciting, you're not missing too much :)

Not disagreeing with anything else you said, but do you have a source for that? There are some flights (normally regional ones) where op-ups are the majority of business class judging by the number of blue boarding passes lined up at the gate. I get op-up'd more than 80% of the time on MNL-HKG, for example, so some routes are consistently well over-booked in Y just to fill the plane up.

That was from a friend who works at CX, but in hindsight I do suspect that he was referring to longhaul, so you're probably quite right that this no would be lower for regional.

(OT question for you - what are the chances of an op-up for two MPC silvers taking a Friday night to BKK together and a Sunday night flight back? I have no idea what loads are like, and don't have access to the EF tools - thanks!)

You can always go to the CX website and do bookings for your flights. If it says full in full economy, then your chances are higher. However, I've recently been on a number of SIN flights which have said full on the online booking page, and not been op-up'd (CX Gold here). Only been op-up'd once on what I would have considered 5 potentials

I have to agree with Ann Tyrol, to assume someone wouldn't steal because they can afford J/F is a fairly 19th century view of the world.

I think thats quite appauling for an FA to berate a passenger under any circumstance. If I heard that happening on a flight I was on I would be very wary of using that airline again, of course the exception is the US where berating pax seems to be the rule not the exception :rolleyes: