I've been a vocal critic of CX but to compare them to BA - where there are currently a whole host of issues including often delayed flights, often missing baggage, non-existent (truly non-existent, not just long waits) customer service, and more - is just absurd. CX has fallen a lot in the regional / Asian rankings, but still head and shoulders above the North American / European offerings.

(I'm a BA frequent flier and BAEC member btw).

And this https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...y-madness.html . Esp, for a four hour flight, Philips will have likely to encountered narrow-bodied equipment on BA.

post covid, this slippery slope CX is on is purely on management.
like leosantos said, mong kok shop girls are being recruited and you can see the results inflight (maybe not in the passengers eye, but definitely in their colleagues eyes). even their training department is worried about the quality that is coming in. this trainer also said that their English standards were below average that he could not pass them. imagine being served by an ex-KFC manager - "What you like?" (as reported by colleagues. now, you can even find an ex bus driver in the team. the standard has fallen quite considerably.
the same goes for the pilots. just about anyone can get into their cadet pilot scheme now. a senior pilot said some time back that he knows of over 60 senior pilots are leaving. most are off to greener pastures (we all know where that is). one ex FO mentioned smugly, "Apartment?!?! it's a villa!"

Just too note and as mentioned on other forums the announcements on JAL are more than twice as long as those on CX and repeated endlessly.

CX is terrible now.
We have moved 70% of travel to QR/SQ.
if either of these airlines status matched CX, i think CX would be done.

And yes it is no better than BA or AI now.
No customer service, everything is now cheapened with this "Cathay brand" on everything
flights always delayed because the management hates their staff.

The company does not even promote or hire based on competence anymore its all bases on race and gender.
frankly they deserve to fail and go bankrupt.

Instead of hiring staff to run a shop in a mall , hire staff to serve your planes and customers!!!
This has nothing to do with China or any other racist ideas on here by some.
it has everything to do with Swire having lost its mind.

Rupert Hogg was the last hope.
if you think the current CEO is bad, wait till Lavinia Lau is at the helm.

Still remember when discussing flying with friends , business acquaintances etc Cathay was always held as the creme de la creme, they never had the best cabins or the best food ( always near the top ) but the customer service and lounges were second to none.
in the last 40 years for the first time most people put Cathay on the same level as UA/BA

I don't think Swire is capable anymore.

If the reports voiced this year re pilots leaving Cathay were true they would I estimate have minus about 500 pilots in the team whereas some 600 pilots have been recruited. This has resulted in the airline having now over 550 more pilots than at the beginning of the year.
Who I am wondering are flying the aircraft ?

I have a question for the poster re his unsubstantiated comments re the quality of staff. Where previously did the airline recruit staff in HK ?

Further he omits to mention the new CC crew base established in London and the many previously employed cabin crew returning to the airline plus new Philippine and Thai and Malaysian crew. The airline was last month also advertising for Japanese speaking crew. These are facts not the gossip and hearsay. presented above.

As reported by the SCMP earlier this month 'New cabin crew hires at Cathay Pacific Airwayscan earn as much as HK$20,000 (US$2,550) per month following an increase in pay, as part of (new) initiatives by Hong Kong’s flag carrier.
Apparently in HK that the airline now has 500 more trained CC than at the start of the year
It is true of course that most large airlines are presently struggling to recruit enough staff, crew and pilots. - with several including a large Australian operator having to cancel routes due to lack of pilots.

As we all know it has been particularly difficult for Cathay as they and Hong Kong were effectively closed for 2 years.
They are however managing month by month expanding the routes toward 2019 levels and crewing the aircraft.

I don't know an airline where staff /unions do not claim that they are underpaid, understaffed and overworked.

I can't comment on CX post-Covid except to say that I'm just back from a Covid-delayed honeymoon in the UK/Europe and we flew EK in F for only a little more than CX wanted for J to LHR. EK F varied between (as good as CX F used to be plus a shower) on the A380, to (out of this world good) on the "game changer" 777.

And I learn from others that almost all CX cabin crew are still wearing masks! That for me is a show-stopper immediately in a premium cabin.

So as someone who has I guess about 1.5MM on CX and was Diamond for many years pre-Covid, I don't think I'll be back any time soon.

Pretty much the case with most people at least in my circles as well.

Ek, QR, SQ are miles ahead of CX and people have moved on. It is a shame cause HK is such a cool city.
CX staff dont care about customers anymore.
StIll wearing masks like all your customers are carriers of disease?
Why did you become an FA if you are too scared of other humans?!!

it's only a matter of time when the lost Pilot talent results in an incident as well.

Also covid affected other countries and airlines as well.
They just did not have the stupidity to get rid of their best staff and thus could recover faster.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. Service providers here still wear masks as part of service (not getting customers sick) (less consistently when on the ground). Customers are no longer expected to reciprocate.

What's wrong with Ronald Lam? Genuine question - I have no direct knowledge, but everything I've either heard or read about Lam is that he is a capable, hardworking, and detail oriented CEO. I think he was also a trusted lieutenant of Rupert Hogg when Hogg was CEO.

Don't think he had anything to do with the terrible Cathay rebranding as a lifestyle brand idea either.

This level of concern for the customer is something really new in HK!

And something completely alien to the rest of the world (or at least the non-asian world). On my return to HK (on EK, no masks) I saw more people wearing masks in the first 10 minutes than I had seen in the previous 30 days in the UK and Europe (and almost all of those were Asian tourists).

I find this total inability to comprehend risk amongst a significant proportion of people in HK to be utterly dumbfounding.

It still happens quite often with Japan service providers too. It depends on the operator/supervisor I guess, and mirrors local customer expectations.

Nothing new at all and has probably been this way since SARS. People who are sick commonly put on a mask as a courtesy to others. The continued wearing of masks by some (not even close to all, and a continuously decreasing proportion) CX crew is simply an extension of this. As percysmith says, also common in Japan which is of course famed for its manners.

There is no confusion about risk in this equation.

Still letting masks bother you? Of all legitimate gripes about CX and service, masks is nowhere near the top of the list - if it even makes the list at all.

Also, everyone, let's take our tone down a notch - I understand that we all have frustrations directed at CX, but let's not mix in personal attacks. Concerns about English levels are legitimate, but calling them "MK girls" is derogatory.

I think the CX forum is currently un-modded so let's try to behave ourselves!

IF you have CX DM, and SQ flights upcoming, an SQ status match can be requested. I did and received it.

Do we want to blame CX for that, or should we consider this the consequence of the Chinazation of Hong Kong?
I did write many times about this, some posts got removed due to being considered "inappropriate", though that does not change the reality of the (harsh political) environment CX is operating in.

As said, it's not only about capabilities but also about the environment to operate in. The moment you have a big outstanding debt from the government, all kinds of government officials want to enforce their personal preferences, which may seriously deviate from wise business decisions. There are reasons why LH (and other airlines) did want to get rid of the government Covid loans asap. For CX that'll be much more difficult due to A) the size of the debt and B) the political landscape, where it is considered completely normal for governments to "run" a business without the knowledge, and capabilities, though with conflicting interests (to put it mildly).

Masks = some crew on Cathay ware masks some of the time (personal choice) - all crew on JAL ware masks it seems all of the time - some S'pore airlines crew ware masks some of the time - some crew on other Asian airlines ware masks some or all of the time.
Can anyone honestly blame them ?
Whatever your answer best get used to masks on all Asian airlines because they are going to be with us for a long time yet I suspect

Just as well then that Cathay intends pay off in full any debt to the government by year end .
Personally though I don't see government involvement necessarily a negative - Singapore airlines seems to run pretty well and that is a government majority owned airline. It rather depends on the government perhaps ?

And no crew at all on my recent Emirates, Tap, Ryanair, & KLM flights wore masks (including several Korean and HK crew on Emirates).

For me it's just another reason to move on from CX and similar. If I'm paying hard-earned cash for an F flight to Europe then a key part of that is the service. Service is severely degraded when you have to keep asking people to repeat stuff and you can read facial expressions.

How's that going to work in an emergency? If the first line of CX's emergency drill for cabin crew isn't "Take the f**king mask off so that people will understand you clearly" then someone needs to get them rewritten PDQ.

Singapore does have a very technocratic government, where the proper technical operation of the show does have the preference, as is supported by the majority of Singaporeans.

Hong Kong / China does have a government, centered around themselves, to stay in power, whatever happens, whatever force/enforcement is needed, based on their own near-religious belief of their personal view on society, independent whether the people in the country they "serve", when free to speak out, would approve.

That's a major difference. and it reflects, as the comments on CX in this forum show.

I cannot believe how many people are defending Cathay.

Swire has run the airline down and made it third rate.
Stop blaming the culture of China or the government.

The Hong Kong government has not told CX to treat passengers like crap, serve slop for food, have a stupid 6 weeks reply whatsapp contact service or fire all the best staff.

Have they? Must have been posted on Wechat or XHS

On the topic of why more SOE involvement, or more PRC involvement, isn't helpful to Cathay - it's not because anyone looks "down" upon any country, government, or business. It's a business culture clash; while many things between HK and China seem to be becoming more and more alike, in business there are still differences. I'm sure a lot of us here are in the finance industry, we all know - and remember - what happened to CLSA in the years prior and after the merger.

Here's a refresher, with excerpts from the SCMP.

It involves bruised egos, lost bonuses and a culture clash that some say was inevitable after Citic Securities bought CLSA six years ago, putting the freewheeling Hong Kong institution in the hands of a state-owned giant that ultimately answers to China’s Communist Party.

It was an awkward marriage from the start. Whereas Citic was a product of China’s top-down brand of state capitalism, CLSA was founded by two former journalists in Hong Kong and was imbued with its hometown’s independent streak.

Source: https://www.scmp.com/business/bankin...ecurities-clsa

While I agree with many comments made by NZFlyer777 I must say that Cathay can at times still surprise on the upside. Today I flew business class as always with my family from Penang to Hong Kong and had a really good meal with good service. I was not alone, both my wife an my son separately and unprompted commented on how much they enjoyed the meal. This is in complete contrast to service on the Manila flights which is miserable and a recent trip to London which surprised on the downside. As for comments on Mongkok girls I have yet to meet any which may be due to my being a lifetime member and as such pampered by the ISMs and those within her purview. But the Wing has crashed after the reintroduction of the buffet service. I fear for the Pier.

Assuming your FT handle reflects where you come from, I think, you have no idea what the environment can have on influence on how a population/people function.

When living in a free Western state, so many things are taken for granted, that a state functions, without having to have second thoughts, things which aren't common in authoritarian states. Think only about the persistent culture of lying, required to survive in a dictatorial environment. This gets so much ingrained in daily life, that people simply have no longer an expectation of what can be relied on and what is just a facade, crumbling on the first touch. Their expectation horizon goes down from the common Western type of long-term planning to just "now". More is not available, because it can change at any moment, just like what the powers-to-be have in their mind, so not worth spending money on. So people don't count on it, let alone, invest in a future based on that / those wishes. Only short-term thinking remains.

And, the result of that situation is this:

And, of course, companies make mistakes, though that happens everywhere.

As someone who regularly flies economy, I find the carping about service levels in this thread kind of funny - economy service is barely ever distinguishable. But Cathay stands out for entertainment - there's a reason it was just ranked first in this category by Skytrax. I also find it more comfortable at least in a non-middle seat than the one flight I've taken to HK on a competitor (LH) and appreciate the little touches it still has like paper menus. Food in economy is rarely very distinguishable but my recollection is Cathay was slightly better on that score as well.

Beyond HK I've flown a lot on BA/AA "post-pandemic" and find them less reliable/more variable.

The airlines that you mention are not Asian - that is the difference in mind- set as I believed was fairly obvious. Most Asian airlines will not bully their staff into line as Emirates and the other sandpit airlines are often reported as doing. No right or wrong way just personal choice

Most people on this forum I feel take an intelligent balanced view.
Some seemingly do not preferring to voice unrelenting aggressive often unfounded criticism which prompts others, self included to endeavour to restore a balance and offer a factual view. I am not sure if this is interesting to fellow posters or not?

I've had a few flights with them in recent months and did find service to be a bit inconsistent, but I give them benefit of doubt given they're ramping up operations and probably got a lot of newer green staff.

YYZ-HKG (Premium Economy) : Decent food, some cutbacks but a very comfortable transpacific crossing.
HKG-TPE & TPE-HKG : Uneventful, timely, with a hot rice meal in both sectors, a contrast to years ago when we got a bun in a doggy bag.
XMN-HKG : 50 minute flight the crew worked their rear-ends off to distribute and collect a hot rice meal. I felt sorry for them and they all kept their composure despite the very tight time limit.
ICN-HKG : 1 surly crew but the meals were distributed quick enough although I was surprised appetizer was gone although the nice ice-cream is back.

As a general perception, there is a wider mix of happy cheerful and stoic staff. I don't necessarily put much focus on who is smiling or not as it doesn't impact too much my experience, but I do agree service consistency is a problem, but the overall product is still good and not enough to deter me from flying Cathay. They're definitely not third rate or anywhere close to that. I've had much worse experiences flying LH (the food was absolutely awful) and MU (online check-in turned off entirely).

I agree, on 4 short haul CX flights I have been on this year, the staff are generally helpful and friendly. Service flows are a bit different on each flight though it doesn't impact my own personal perception that much. Cost cutting is evident (eg removal of bottled water, 2 rounds of drinks etc.) but I understand it is expected for them to recover from the 3 years of horror. The other aspects of their product like the seat, IFE, ground experience etc. are the things that really attract me to go for CX. Plus, as an ex-HKG flyer, CX still remains as the most convenient carrier for me to use.

More discontent from flight crew https://hongkongfp.com/2023/08/13/fu...e-a-dream-job/

I won’t blame them, they should seek their market value either here or elsewhere. CX needs to pay market price, and we all need to suffer when the math doesn’t work.

Eventually I see a Qatarisation of the airline.

What does Qatarisation of the airline mean?

We import all our labour shortages at market.

We should separate what are within CX's control and what are not. Look at the other companies who operate in wherever with such or similar macro power structures, what have they said/done and what have they not said/done?

I would give CX some time and leeway to fix what is broken. As they recover, they should share the gains with its staff.

Regardless of ownership structure and political leanings, CX is still a HK homegrown brand which I hope that it can continue to thrive.

someone here will say it is fake news lah. He say there is no shortage of pilots at CX. And many ex-pilots have returned.

HKET reports CX planning 5% support staff cuts HK and overseas, in anticipation of lower (single digit) growth

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1AT...ibextid=wwXIfr

am730 also

國泰據報擬有限度裁員 發言人：持續審視組織架構(更新)
https://www.am730.com.hk/article/634775

I am a regular of CX in C and must say that they are so price competitive compared with QR (my preferred airline in terms of onboard service) that I end of taking CX all the time. The fact that they have the BRU-HKG four times a week is also a big incentive for me, so I can connect to everywhere in Asia very easily, doing the transfer in a reasonably easy airport (HKG) with excellent lounges. I am just annoyed with the security lines in HKG in the morning but that's about it. I saw, years ago, CX's downhill but I can see how they are catching up without becoming QR but achieving very reasonable levels of service. Granted, I am OWE, so I get immediately identified by the crew, get first selecting meal and when I ask them for something, I get it right away. Yes, this week they ran out of champagne in the AKL-HKG and me and the other-half moved to the Chablis :). First world problems. As long as they continue offering these prices from Brussels, I will do the bear minimum with QR to maintain Platinum but that's it. Fingers crossed that they do not cancel BRU as they did during covid.