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yeunganson Jun 3, 2020 12:37 pm

It will be an interesting new world.

US has banned Chinese airlines from coming to USA starting June 16. US also cancelled Hong Kong's special status and see Hong Kong as part of China in one country one system last week.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/reu...hina-1.5596578

So if we combined those two. It may effect Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific to be able to fly to USA after June 16

Cambo Jun 3, 2020 2:11 pm

Mwaa, the guy is on war with some 60+% of his own countries' population, putting the whole country on fire, ehhh, civil war. And the guy is even on war with about the whole world.

And now, raising his "promised" walls -after the physical one failed 100%- by raising traffic restrictions.

In the meantime, the Covid-19 virus spread in the USA is not getting lower and due to lessening the contact restrictions will fuel up a second wave of Covid-19 infections. So, I certainly can understand China (and the rest of the world), do not want to see infected US people arrive.

Looks to me, this is going to end in a huge disaster for the US population.

Same, same with other countries, where populist Bokitos managed to become head of state (Brazil, UK, Russia, to name a few).

Reply1984 Jun 3, 2020 6:58 pm


Originally Posted by yeunganson (Post 32426659)
It will be an interesting new world.

US has banned Chinese airlines from coming to USA starting June 16. US also cancelled Hong Kong's special status and see Hong Kong as part of China in one country one system last week.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/reu...hina-1.5596578

So if we combined those two. It may effect Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific to be able to fly to USA after June 16

For now it is not applied to Hong Kong. US-HK civil aviation agreement is still valid. This ban on Chinese airlines is countermeasures for China's "Five-Ones" policy, which makes US airlines flying to China impossible.

freed0m Jun 3, 2020 7:32 pm


Originally Posted by Reply1984 (Post 32427657)
For now it is not applied to Hong Kong. US-HK civil aviation agreement is still valid. This ban on Chinese airlines is countermeasures for China's "Five-Ones" policy, which makes US airlines flying to China impossible.

It is not a new policy. US airlines have been fine in the last few months without flying to China.

What's the sudden urge to fly to China? Is it because China is much safer than US now?

moondog Jun 3, 2020 8:08 pm


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32427710)
It is not a new policy. US airlines have been fine in the last few months without flying to China.

What's the sudden urge to fly to China? Is it because China is much safer than US now?

1. DL and UA have still been flying passenger planes to China at a fairly high frequency, but without passengers
2. The Five Ones policy has resulted in extremely high fares (i.e. demand is significantly in excess of supply)

Reply1984 Jun 3, 2020 8:09 pm


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32427710)
It is not a new policy. US airlines have been fine in the last few months without flying to China.

What's the sudden urge to fly to China? Is it because China is much safer than US now?

Because there is business. Overseas Chinese, especially those Chinese students may have urgent need to return to China, but flights between US and China are extremely constrained. A $6000 one-way Y from US to China is very common. Chinese airlines can do this business, but US airlines cannot. So here is the dispute.

freed0m Jun 3, 2020 8:35 pm


Originally Posted by Reply1984 (Post 32427767)
Because there is business. Overseas Chinese, especially those Chinese students may have urgent need to return to China, but flights between US and China are extremely constrained. A $6000 one-way Y from US to China is very common. Chinese airlines can do this business, but US airlines cannot. So here is the dispute.

This business has been going on ever since the virus broke out.

US airlines chose not to participate in earlier months.

Per DOT communication, the issue is not only that US airlines can't fly to China now, but that US airlines can't fly whatever frequency and to whatever destinations they want.

moondog Jun 3, 2020 8:38 pm


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32427799)
This business has been going on ever since the virus broke out.

US airlines chose not to participate in earlier months.

Per DOT communication, the issue is not only that US airlines can't fly to China now, but that US airlines can't fly whatever frequency and to whatever destinations they want.

One flight per week is a non starter.

freed0m Jun 3, 2020 8:45 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 32427805)
One flight per week is a non starter.

exactly.

China does not want to fly to more destinations in US with higher frequency, no doubt that it would not grant US arilines more destinations or higher frequency.

That DOT shuts down US-China flights is quite an empty threat to China.

patrickw Jun 3, 2020 9:41 pm

Actually it might have worked.

Up until today there is actually prerequisite for airlines to apply flights under the five ONEs policy, only those who was still flying to China on 12 Mar are eligible to apply. This is the main reason why none of the American or European airlines can apply for even that one weekly quota, as they have suspended all routes to China before that. But this part of restrictions has just been lifted today
​​​​​.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...KBN23B081?il=0
​​​​​
Under this new policy foreign airlines can also apply for one weekly frequency, but the route will be suspended for one week if there are 5 pax tested positive upon arrival. If there are more than 10 positive cases, the route will be suspended for 4 weeks.

To get back to the topic, I guess the hope for cx to restart a meaningful number of routes even on reduced schedule will be tied to how quickly the transit restrictions in hkg is relaxed further. Airlines might only cancel flights much closer to hoping rules are eased and demand are back in.

CS300 Jun 3, 2020 9:46 pm


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32427710)
It is not a new policy. US airlines have been fine in the last few months without flying to China.

What's the sudden urge to fly to China? Is it because China is much safer than US now?

It's not a sudden urge to restart flights to China.
Delta and United have been trying for awhile but to no avail.

garykung Jun 3, 2020 9:48 pm


Originally Posted by yeunganson (Post 32426659)
It will be an interesting new world.

US has banned Chinese airlines from coming to USA starting June 16. US also cancelled Hong Kong's special status and see Hong Kong as part of China in one country one system last week.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/reu...hina-1.5596578

So if we combined those two. It may effect Hong Kong's Cathay Pacific to be able to fly to USA after June 16

Not trying to be political, but the U.S. has not done anything so far. So the impact to CX is practically nil.

An important note - for this Administration, always wait until the official documentation has drawn up, otherwise, consider everything else is BS.

moondog Jun 3, 2020 10:54 pm


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32427816)
exactly.

China does not want to fly to more destinations in US with higher frequency, no doubt that it would not grant US arilines more destinations or higher frequency.

That DOT shuts down US-China flights is quite an empty threat to China.

For MU, PVG-LAX pencils because they have economies of scale at PVG (e.g. lots of one flight per week services). By contrast, if AA, DL, or UA were to restart LAX-PVG, it would be their ONLY passenger flight between the US and China, and they could do it once per week. Even if they were to outsource all ground handling to MU, the numbers would still suck.

freed0m Jun 3, 2020 11:24 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 32427999)
For MU, PVG-LAX pencils because they have economies of scale at PVG (e.g. lots of one flight per week services). By contrast, if AA, DL, or UA were to restart LAX-PVG, it would be their ONLY passenger flight between the US and China, and they could do it once per week. Even if they were to outsource all ground handling to MU, the numbers would still suck.

Isn't it the same for MU in LAX? Even if MU oursources all groud handling to whoever, the numbers suck.

moondog Jun 4, 2020 12:16 am


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 32428037)
Isn't it the same for MU in LAX? Even if MU oursources all groud handling to whoever, the numbers suck.

MU also has the option of flying from other cities in China (e.g. Nanjing) to the US. While certainly not ideal, the playing field is not level.


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