FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Cathay Pacific | Cathay (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-cathay-487/)
-   -   CA & HX in Talks (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cathay-pacific-cathay/2012050-ca-hx-talks.html)

SKRan Mar 25, 2020 4:24 am

Politics aside, although there are some demand between second tier mainland cities and HKG, plus some destinations beyond like BKK, TPE etc, that segment of market is price sensitive. HK express should be able to do that better.

HX is a weak brand in both mainland and HK, compared to CX, CA and its brother HU. Winding it up and the slots can be better utilised by CX group, CA or another player. Aircrafts and crew are not an issue.

A low-cost JV between ca group and CX also sounds good

percysmith Mar 25, 2020 6:16 am

Naah. Just keeping HX or a substitute is good enough.

When they started flying to CTS, no-one in HKcard wanted to fly on them, but everyone earnestly hoped “everyone else” would fly on them, thus lowering yields on CX and releasing seats for redemption.

A bit like cultural programs on TV in Yes Prime Minister:

“I never watch them”
”nor do I, but it’s vital to know that they’re there!”

moondog Mar 27, 2020 5:39 am

Why wouldn't CA just buy HU instead of HX? This would presumably give HNA enough cash to continue running HX, and CA wouldn't have to deal with the HK government.

freed0m Mar 27, 2020 5:53 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 32237605)
Why wouldn't CA just buy HU instead of HX? This would presumably give HNA enough cash to continue running HX, and CA wouldn't have to deal with the HK government.


HU is largely owned by government of Hainan province. HNA is a professional manager with minority interests in HU. HNA will not get much with CA buying HU.

SKRan Mar 27, 2020 9:35 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 32237605)
Why wouldn't CA just buy HU instead of HX? This would presumably give HNA enough cash to continue running HX, and CA wouldn't have to deal with the HK government.


CA can’t avoid HK anti competition as it already owns 29.99% of CX. If combined with HX it has too much control (which probably is a goal for central government anyway) but ...

Cambo Feb 19, 2023 11:57 pm

An insight, why HNA was doomed to collapse:


Effectively, the close relationship with the China governments, allowing HNA to diffuse its company and debt structure.

freed0m Feb 20, 2023 4:25 am

Hainan Airlines is separated from HNA group long long ago.

Whether HNA group survives or not, Hainan airlines will live on.

Cambo Feb 20, 2023 6:40 am


Originally Posted by freed0m (Post 35025355)
Hainan Airlines is separated from HNA group long long ago.

Whether HNA group survives or not, Hainan airlines will live on.

Yep, "sold" under HNA debt pressure somewhere in 2017-2018.

The challenge for China is, there are many more debt laden big companies, all with the same issues, grown to fast to big, based on smart money borrowing schemes, where the same asset is used as a collateral for multiple loans. And the assets purchased with these loans are subsequently used as collateral for more loans. Schouldn't we call this a Ponzi scheme ?

oldchinahand Feb 21, 2023 1:44 am

"Too big to fail' although they are bankrupt to the tune of an almost unbelievable US$220+ BILLION -yes billion. There is a government backed restructuring plan in place which in my (and many informed others)view is bound to fail and /or take upwards of 10 years to even partially finalise.
They are no threat to CX just a minor irritant and unlikely to ever be more than that although they are trying to build a freight only airline using part rebranded aircraft from other HNA subsidiary (also bankrupt) airlines.

CX HK Feb 21, 2023 3:28 am

Has there been any news on the future of HX recently? Or will HNA continue to own and operate them?

oldchinahand Feb 22, 2023 1:27 am

CX HK - HNA is not actually the operator. The operator Is Hong Kong Airlines (Jeff Sun Jianfeng is/was the CEO)who's offices are in Hong Kong.
This company is one of the very many subsidiary companies of HNA

CX HK Feb 22, 2023 2:40 am


Originally Posted by oldchinahand (Post 35031328)
CX HK - HNA is not actually the operator. The operator Is Hong Kong Airlines (Jeff Sun Jianfeng is/was the CEO)who's offices are in Hong Kong.
This company is one of the very many subsidiary companies of HNA

I see, I'm curious what the future holds for HX given they seem to be in financial trouble, and there is increasing competition now with HK Express finally beginning to operate normally after acquisition/integration by Cathay, and with Greater Bay Airlines being established.

CXYYZ Feb 22, 2023 7:24 am


Originally Posted by CX HK (Post 35031416)
I see, I'm curious what the future holds for HX given they seem to be in financial trouble, and there is increasing competition now with HK Express finally beginning to operate normally after acquisition/integration by Cathay, and with Greater Bay Airlines being established.

HX has restructured its debt through parallel HK and UK insolvency processes, and seems to have raised HK$3 billion in equity. My completely speculative guess is that they are in the best (or least worse) financial position that they have been in since years before COVID hit.

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/4/198227/Court-approves-HK-Airlines’-HK$49b-debt-restructuring


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 6:17 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.