IDB in the US - do DOT compensations apply?
 

My friend was just involuntarily denied boarding at JFK because the flight was oversold. He is Diamond on a business class award ticket. The next available flight is in 24 hours. Surprised he was even bumped given his status...but anyway:

According to DOT rules, he should be entitled to 400% the base fare (up to $1,300) given the length of delay. Award ticket fares are calculated on the lowest available fare at the time of bump, which should easily be a few thousand dollars in J. However, CX airport staff claimed that the DOT rules don't apply to foreign carriers. Is this true? I was under the impression that these rules apply to all flights departing from the US regardless of carrier nationality? Has anyone been IDBed on CX out of the US?

I'm pretty sure they apply to CX for flights originating in the US. Did CX not provide him with the IDB handout? That's a big no-no with the DOT.

This is the first time I heard CX denied boarding to a MPC member, let alone a DM. Was he on a CX award?

Anyway, when did he get to the check-in counter? When was he at the gate?

Sorry this actually happened at EWR. Not JFK. Got mixed up.

Nope. Nothing from the staff

Just spoke to him on the phone - the staff went to the BA lounge to find him (and a few others who were also denied boarding).

So he and the others already had BPs. How long before the flight did that happen?

Probably due to a last minute sickness of crew (see Secret... seems this is not uncommon these days) thus need to cut away some passengers....

I would imagine they may cancel a flight for crew sickness, but IDBing some passengers? :confused:

very surprised... IDB for a DM ?? wow.. I thought they will only do this to non-elite.

Yes, the DOT rules do apply to CX on flights originating in the US and yes, the rules do apply to award tickets (referred to as "zero dollar"), and yes the likely compensation would be $1,300 (presuming that the cheapest ticket cost more than $325.

But, if the reason for the denial of boarding was crewmember illness resulting in the need to offload some number of passengers, CX may escape having to pay any compensation by asserting "operational or safety reasons" under 14 CFR 250.6.

The rules require that CX first seek volunteers and then offload passengers in some predetermined order. That could include fare paid, cabin class, status and so on, but it must be predetermined.

OP's friend should make a request to CX for compensation in the amount of US$1,300 (cash), wait a few days and then file a complaint with DOT. This can all be done online. Keep the complaint simple and to the point, e.g., "I was scheduled to fly on CX XXX on Date Y and was involuntarily denied boarding and rescheduled for 24 hours later. I requested and was denied compensation. CX did not request volunteers."

The rest is all fluff.

As of today, the current IDB compensation is $1350 per DOT.

OP: please return and give some more details! I am shocked to hear this.

There must be more to this story....given pax were already in the lounge with BPs, and the IDB pax were in J, and the IDB pax is DM...! Nuts. I have to imagine either there was an utterly massive screw up by the check-in agents, or some extremely bizarre situation happened with crew, weight issues, security issues, or something else.

I mean, there is just no way (in my mind) CX would chose to IDB a Diamond, particularly from the lounge after a BP is issued. In this already-unfortunate circumstance I'd expect them to at least offload a nonstatus passenger. Unless, of course, the DM was the sole award ticket on the flight in J, which I find remarkably unlikely. 40 J seats on 77G, there has to be someone CX would rather offload on that flight than a DM on an award ticket.

My recent experience told me DM rank may not be as important as fare class...

e.g. Once I flew HKG-TPE in V and I saw some (two) SL op-up and I remained in Y... Weeks later I flew again in Y and I got op-up

Since I still have no idea about CIV score (tie with individual or different for each flight for every individual), I always suspect fare class plays an important role in op-up/DB decision... So if OP gets a pure award ticket, OP probably has a very low score from fare class (upgrade award has a price at least) and so low that even DM status can't help (or OP's CIV is too low ;))

I agree on DMs vs CIV and perhaps DM doesn't carry the weight we've hoped/speculated, but let's take a few scenarios.
1) this pax was on an award ticket. I find it hard to believe he was the only award ticket out of 40 J seats, no ID pax, etc. If he was on an AM award ticket, as long as there was a single pax of lower status also on an AM ticket, or anyone on a partner award ticket, ID pax, etc (aka lower value + lower revenue to CX) he wouldn't have been the lowest value pax in that class.
2) let's say okay, this DM even was the sole award booking or for whatever reason the lowest cost base ticket in J that day. I think unlikely but let's roll with it.....however I think this follow on is simply impossible: he had one of the lowest, or the lowest, CIV of anyone on the plane. (!?!). This has gotta be impossible. Couldn't they first propose to IDB this DM down to PEY, and bump a lower cost base fare pax from EY or PEY? The guy is DM, after all. Yes not all DMs are created equal but at an absolute bare bones minimum, you gotta contribute at least 10k USD a year (not to mention the time spent working up to it). There is no way a DM has the lowest CIV on the plane! Absolutely impossible. Yes tiers can be arbitraged and some guys contribute more than others, but no matter what a DM is going to be at least on the upper quartile of value to CX on that plane, and certainly not near the bottom or dead last!

This is why methinks there is more to the story. Maybe there are some missing details. Or there has to be some type of extraordinary situation. Perhaps the EWR ground staff completely, utterly effed up as they say, or perhaps there is some really bizarre situation that occured we (and perhaps the OP and his/her friend) haven't figured out yet.

I've only had the (dis)pleasure of engaging with the EWR ground staff twice and I wouldn't put it past them for being utter idiots but....this story is pretty out there! I mean I've heard of lower status pax getting upgraded, but I think that's in a totally different league no? I mean this DM got IDB, and from J class, on a once a day, 16 hour flight to boot!

In my last trip to Asia, I purchased V for all four segments but never sat in Y. I was op-upped twice to PEY on long hauls, once to J on a short haul, and once sitting in the J section as a Y passenger.

I was op-upped to J on a S, N or Q (I forgot which one) ticket in May. Fare class may be a factor in CIV score, but that may be fare classes for flights over a period of time.

But on IDB, I have not even been asked for VDB!

Hi all - thanks for all the input. Spoke to my friend again before he boarded the flight today to get some more details. We are thinking this probably happened due to EWR ground staff's incompetence/inexperience. They likely didn't consider CIV score or status and only pulled any pax on award. I've personally dealt with them twice and they are definitely much less experienced than JFK counterparts.

Some more details:
1. Staff came to the lounge 40 mins or so prior to boarding to pull pax
2. Staff insisted status doesn't matter and award tickets are not guaranteed seats
3. When asked if he could change to JFK flights, they wanted to charge $100 change fee!!
4. No extraordinary circumstances were mentioned at the airport

If I was one of the pax pulled, I would certainly demand an explanation on why they were doing this on the spot. I think the passengers should've stood firm and refuse to leave the lounge until some sort of formal explanation was given. This is probably the bitterest style to be denied boarding.

As for the $100 change fee for JFK flight, CX is famous for having the habit of asking passengers to own up to the airline's mistake. And this incident shows that some things never change..

I suggest your friend write to CX covering the entire story. Customer relations will probably be shocked too and force the EWR staff to undergo some sort of internal hearing or disciniplary action.

A lot of blather in this thread, but it doesn't seem as though anybody knows what CX's policy is for denied boarding. All CX says in its COC is that it will deny boarding in accordance with "applicable law" (Art. 10.2.4). But, DOT rules require that CX have a pre-set rule for the order in which it denies boarding.

If CX stuck to that pre-set order, the staff did what they were required by US law to do and nobody is going to be retrained or discplined.

So, we're back to Square One because it's all supposition that the award tickets are not the first to get the boot under the CX policy.

IDB in the US - do DOT compensations apply?
 

I am certain that award tickets, irrespective of status, aren't the first to be IDB'd under CX policy- been on many a heavily oversold in all classes flight on award tickets.

And yes, CX historically takes very good care of its DMs. While things may have changed, I doubt CX be the one to make such a drastic change (they just don't do drastic..) as 'IDB award tickets, irrespective of status get the boot'. Fairly certain that the right escalation would lead to atleast a stern memo/call to EWR staff if they are indeed at fault.

An update here in case anyone is interested -
Friend spoke to CX customer service in HK. A supervisor confirmed that proper procedures/protocols were not followed and a status member should not have been denied boarding (fare classes should not trump status in IDB situations). He was offered generous compensation and an apology so pretty good service recovery by CX.

ah I missed this. On 2 separate IDB situations on CX (one ex-SFO) I was told it would happen to non-status pax first. Of those non-status pax, those booked via OTAs like Orbitz would be the first to get IDB.

This is why I recommend clueless family members or friends who travel infrequently to at least sign up for Asia Miles before a busy flight. It gives you a (very, very, very) small shot at an op-up, and offers protection from IDB. Invariably there are going to be non-status pax who book through third-party websites and they're getting targeted first.

CX is not going to be denying boarding to pax who book through its own channels. FWIW, this advice holds for the hotel industry too. Book through the hotel website if the price is the same as Orbitz. In the rare occurrences hotels involuntarily deny you a stay, they're going to reject the OTA channel first.

Either way, the OP's situation was just bizarre. It made no sense from any standpoint, even if CX applied a "lowest revenue" standard.

thanks for following up. sounds about right. the EWR staff continues to amaze for incompetence.

IDB in the US - do DOT compensations apply?
 

Fc912 - any pointers on the extent of the compensation?

Probably full refund of miles + at least 50% compensation miles + appreciation cards? :rolleyes:

I will say USD$1350 with decent miles?

If it is a truly IDB, USD$1350 is the mandatory statutory compensation. CX, in no circusmtance, can take away this entitlement.

Or if the cash compensation is waived by mutual consent, but that would probably be something much higher than USD1350 in value.

IANAL.

But I don't think such waiver can be allowed as it is against public policy.