Disappointing first time Experience on CX
 

Travelled recently on CX from SFO to HKG in Premium Economy (CX 893/892.) Perhaps I was naive, but I was expecting service levels to be significantly higher (even in Y) than the US carriers who have diluted their product so much that I avoid them even though I have a many miles with them. In some ways (especially the check-in protocols etc.) were more efficient than on US carriers. It was the "soft" in flight product that seemed to miss the mark and was not much better than on UA or other US carriers. The cabin attendants seemed to be on a rote script and there was little or no personalization to the service. They seemed to go through the drill of meal service and then hunker down in the galley. They didn't even make water passes through the cabin (at least UA does that.) The attendants seemed young and not particularly well trained (they didn't even know the food choices on their menu.) The food was good from SFO; but lousy out of HKG. Baggage handling on the return in SFO took longer than any international flight I had taken in the last ten years. Maybe the F/J product is much better than US carriers, but certainly not in Y or PE. Maybe I caught them on a bad day(s). Just curious if my experience is out of the norm.

Disappointing First Experience on CX
 

The premium economy experience is certainly nicer than any thing a U.S. Carrier offers. Just based on the seat alone, that's apparent.

Regarding service, CX expects you to ring the call light for service. CX's customs are not the American style "never ring the call light"...the exact opposite. They expect you to use it and will come immediately. It seems to throws first time American travelers off. This holds true in J and F, BTW. Flight attendants trucking through the cabin with water in plastic cups is not my idea of good service, but it is what Americans expect so I guess there is just some cultural misunderstanding.

In general, the placement of the PEY cabin does indeed make FAs less inclined to go up there unless the call light is rung. I can see how this is an annoyance although I'm not sure what CX can do about it given they assign Y flight attendants - not J - to work the PEY cabin. From a plane geography standpoint, the J FAs (and even galley) is closer. They do make a minor attempt during boarding by having J FAs help out. But during meal service, indeed it's the Y FAs.

As comparing it to US carriers, that's just insane given the hard product difference. I understand the soft product service concerns, but you can't be serious about taking UA "economy plus" over CX PEY. UA, DL and AAs "economy plus" is nonsense - the seat is identical. You get a few extra inches of legroom but an identical, crappy economy seat. AA is flying 10 across in their 77Ws in Y class, including "economy comfort" or whatever they call it. UA is rumored to be configging their new 77Ws the same. These are not PEY products but more like getting a priority seat like a bulkhead or exit row or something. It is not PEY. By contrast, CX PEY is 8 across and a totally different seat.

I wonder if those travel bloggers make for impossible expectations. CX is all around a very good airline, and they offer a genuine PEY product, something none of the big 3 US carriers can claim. You get a bottle of water at your seat, J class first meal, improved headphones over economy, don't have to fight your neighbor for his armrest, and a significantly enhanced seat over what is in Y class, in terms of material, pitch and width. The product is not competing with J but rather "enhancing" Y, and if sedn in that light I think it does a decent job.

Sorry to hear about your disappointment in the experience. It sounds like there was no "wow" factor on your trip. IME, I have found CX PE to be a solid product overall, a step-up in terms of seat over Y but the other differentiators are not very significant to me. I am unable to speak for United, but I would always choose long-haul CX Y or PE over AA Y.

precisely. no "wow" factor is what it sounds like.

Definitely no "wow" factor based on what I saw; but clearly my expectations were too high. Yes, the seat is head and shoulders above the US carriers Economy Plus. Beyond that, the product wasn't much better than what I've seen on the US carriers. Just my .02 cents...I respect where everyone who has more experience with CX is coming from.

I almost fly CX873/CX872 exclusively. I do not know much about the other flights. FAs do make water (and sometimes OJ) passes from time-to-time. I may be wrong, but I think they do pass bottled water to PEY passengers too. There are snacks and fruit in the Y gallery. They are usually there until 2-3 hours before landing. So you can ring the call button or just walk to the gallery to get snacks (or cup noodles). I am surprised your experience is very different.

Since I exclusively fly PEY now let me make some injections, exclusively on "soft service" differences:

1) They hand you a warm towel and serve you a drink at first. I doubt US3 has that.

2) The food is much better than any US3 Y-meal. The service may be "methodical" and lack "personal touch", I guess that means she didn't smile at you or flirt with you?

3) They DO make water runs, perhaps you were asleep? They don't make it that often, but when I stay awake full flight I count at least 2-3 times per flight they make such a run.

4) They hand each pax a bottle of Evian Water.

5) The galley is fully stock with decent snacks and self-serve water/orange juice.

6) Use the call button, they come up pretty quick (usually)

7) Cup-of-Noodles made to order. Very wide selection of drink offerings (last time I flew US3 international it's either Coke, Sprite or Diet Coke, is that still the case?)

To compare CX to US3 is ridiculous, even on soft product alone and discount the superior hard product CX PEY offers

Personally, I found the comment on the "flirting" part to be totally unnecessary to your post. Sounds a bit derogatory, if you ask me....

Bad food from Hkg seems like a pretty consistent finding.

actually i was pleasantly surprised with a beef pot pie option 2 weeks ago when i flew back from hkg. it was actually pretty good .. a nice change from the normal chicken or beef entrees i usually see on the menu. hoping cx does start to seriously revamp their dining menu.

Cathay crews are overworked, stripped off of benefits, suffer from one of the lowest payscale across the industry disproportionate to the cost of living in HK. They definitely don't (and should not, anyway) have the 'I'm your humble servant' Singapore style service and I don't mind since as long as you are pleasant and polite to the crew they will treat you in the same way in reverse. As always, they are here 'mainly for your safety'.

This is EXACTLY the issue for Americans flying CX. I still cannot get used to it.

It's not that we are water fanatics... it's that culturally the service in America is expected to be proactive rather than reactive.

Some Chinese friends were commenting once about the service in an American restaurant. "It was SO annoying!", they said. "The waitress kept bothering us, asking if everything was OK, asking if we wanted more drinks or food. She just kept selling, selling, selling."

They completely misunderstood that in America, the waitress is not trying to sell more food. By American standards, they probably had GREAT service.

It's culturally different in China, where you scream out "fúwù yuán" when you want something in a restaurant. Otherwise you starve.

I still cannot get used to it on CX. But I've learned to NOT get frustrated or disappointed by it. Just need to accept that culturally that's the way it is.

Just last week I flew HKG-ORD in F. It drove them nuts that I'd walk into the galley to ask for something rather than push the call button. But I just can't bring myself to use that button. In American culture, it is viewed by many as being too pushy and demanding. (Not ALL Americans are pushy and demanding, anyway!)

For me, CX is not about service. Quite frankly, I find the service to be medicore at best. (And the food/wine selection is downright blah!) For me it's all about the hard product, and as others have commented CX's hard product is head and shoulders above any of the legacy domestics.

Thanks QRC3288 for the heads up ^.

I'm not American (but rather from across the pond) and in all my years of flying (30+) I have maybe used the call button once or twice but then again I have always flown European carriers. Come to think of it, It's actually very seldom I have heard or noticed the "pling" being used so will for sure use it rather than feeling ignored by the cabin crew when flying CX later this year...

I actually prefer to get up of my seat and on my two old legs seek out the cabin crew and ask whatever it is I'm looking for; this said nothing wrong in calling for service at ones seat ^

My main complaint about Cathay Premium Economy is it seems to have been put in as an after thought. I don't like that there are only one set of toilets on one side of the aircraft so I have to essentially tiptoe over the front row of the middle seats, which I feel horribly about or just use the Economy section toilets. Neither are idea.

In terms of service, Cathay is top notch and my go-to airlines. I mean, I'm flying a longer route NY to Melbourne just so I can fly Cathay :D Sorry you didn't find their service appealing but I think they are the best. I personally find it annoying to have flight attendants walk around up and down yelling out "water? water?" If I want something, I will ask for it. I especially enjoy Cathay's cup noodles on demand :D

All that aside, the main reason I fly Cathay is I typically need to make connections as I'm flying to places with no direct flights. On more than one occasion when my it looked like I would have trouble making my connection, Cathay had grounds staff ready to escort everyone to the front of the security line and we were able to make it on board. Luggage made it on too. Never in a million years would this happen on a US-based airline. Luggage transfers seem like it's optional for those guys.

I agree with your thoughts on CX.

Call me old fashioned, but you can't give a fair opinion on service based off 1 return trip. Sure it's your experience but it's 1 of 100's of flights the carrier makes each day. No airline is perfect and none will get it right on 100% of flights, but Cathay consistently ranks well above almost every airline in the world. Knowing the service levels are constantly at a high standard a major draw card for many travellers.

Another factor is were your crew SFO based? If so - they're practically Americans with a CX flavour of training and this may have an impact purely due to cultural upbringing.

Also OP - Perhaps your expectations were that PE was more of a 'Business Lite' than a Premium Economy. Most US airlines are total rubbish so I don't see how you even compare them in the same league as CX. Of course, I could be wrong - but this is based on over 1,000+ commercial flights in the past 10 years on Oneworld carriers with a mix of 50% in biz/first and the rest in econ/premium. CX is by far my favourite and the most consistent of the bunch.

Speaking of SFO-HKG, I'm booked in PEY next month on 873 but hoping for a J seat to open up although PEY sounds perfectly comfortable. I noticed CX runs another flight about an hour later (#893)....anyone have a preference for either one? I assume the first flight might be more popular due to the slightly earlier departure time, but if J opens up on 893, I'll switch to that.

Differences (besides dep time):
*The later flight isn't daily yet, so heads up if you change dates.
*CX893 uses 77G (3 class plane), while CX873 uses 77H (4 class plane). For PEY purposes, the cabin is slightly different due to plane configs. Specifically, there is no separate bathroom in the 77G PEY section. 77H's PEY section has a single deficated bathroom on the right side of the plane.

As a heads up, the poster above who didn't like the single PEY bathroom on one side seems to have ridden 77H since as mentioned above 77G doesn't have a bathroom in the PEY cabin (nor do any of the A330 configs for that matter). As the poster mentioned, since it's on the right forward side and there is no easy crossing access, it appears common for left-hand side pax to walk in front of middle bulkhead pax.

I'm not too familiar with PEY longhaul, but off the top of my head 77H could be an advantage if you're seated away from the bathroom on the right side (to avoid walking over people). On the flip side it might be a disadvantage to have a bathroom if you're in the bulkhead or are on the left side and will find it awkwad to walk over pax. (I am curious if its a big disadvantage to sit in the bulkhead on 77H PEY, seems like it). regardless it seems like a small point since you can use the regular economy bathrooms as well.

Are there more J seats on 893 compared to 873? If there are more J seats as well as the less desirable later departure, I'm thinking 893 may open up in J more than 873.

Disappointing first time Experience on CX
 

I personally feel that CX is one of the most overrated airlines in all cabins. The HKG lounges are amazing, however that's about it.

And very few airlines offer a "wow" factor in J these days either.

I don't think of CX J as particularly elegant or luxurious (except for the HKG lounges), but they are very competent and most of my CX travel experiences have been absolutely seamless. Which after a while becomes a "wow" in and of itself.

Off topic posts have been deleted.

sxc
Cathay Pacific Moderator

IME, flights with SFO based crews are some of the best flights I've had. I find the outport crew there (and JFK) is so small, relatively new in each place, and they all know each other. Usually makes for a very pleasant flight, especially since they're used to flying together. It's enjoyable as a passenger to see some familiar faces onboard and build a rapport with various FAs. Last year I flew with one ex-SFO ISM 4 times.

It's true there are cultural differences between the US based crews and HKG based ones, but I think that's unavoidable.

I agree, however this thread is about PEY. I don't expect to be wowed on any airline in Y+, it's mainly for a more comfortable seat/sleep and not paying for J.

I actually thought the same! AA's economy comfort on their 77Ws has remained at 9 across, with an extra inch or so width over their main cabin: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...777-300_ER.php

PEY is about pain reduction, not luxury. I think of it as a civilised economy class as it provides just enough extra room to take the edge off the suffering incurred in taking a long flight.

I've been a frequent user of PEY for many years, first on BA then on CX and my expectations are limited to that extra room, plus a quieter cabin that Y. That's it.

+1^

The reason I continue to fly CX is because when things go pear shaped on the ground, they have always fixed it for me regardless of class of travel. The value in this capability is hugely under estimated until one experiences ground snafus, as has happened more than once on the airline that claims to have "service even other airlines talk about".

Its my experience that the inflight service has really come down quite a bit lately. Last flight there was only one serving of drinks in back of the plane Y when I'm used to getting at least three offerings for drinks in Y. They also go by very fast and if you aren't ready with your coffee cup they'll just rudely pass you by. Its like they would like you to sleep rather than handing you coffee. Also the water they serve in drink rounds on nights tastes very bad so prefer to drink soda water. They seem to pamper status holding Hong Kong residents very well though.

Also miss the warm towel they hand you at Finnair Y after waking up at intercontinental flights. Food has been great though and service by ground staff.

Since CX is running some good fares HND-HKG-USA in PEY, what is your opinion about the PEY experience on the short HND-HKG flights? One is a 747 and the other is a 77W. Not much difference there I guess. Lastly, I believe that you are a big fan of the PEY flights to Newark instead of JFK. I'm thinking of a EWR-HKG-HND for the inbound to HND and CX's 888 flight via YVR on the outbound from HND. As an aside, the recent Y class flight to HKG was very nice considering that it was in economy class, not PEY. Thanks

Food wise, CX is very low on my scale either in F or J. No experiences in long haul PEY or Y. Regional PEY and Y it is OK. The CX meals are all form over substance - even the forms are not much nicer than its competitors but the foods definitely are inferior, by a lot. I dont ask for fancy meals but at least CX should serve something that tastes better for its often higher prices of its premium cabins over its competitors.

Service wise, CX F is nice but J is below other premium airlines J - off the top of my head from last year and this year's experiences, the J services of OZ and VS are almost comparable to CX F. The J services of QR and TK are certainly a lot better than CX J. TG is slightly better than CX. LH is about the same as CX. AC and CA (how they neatly fit into this category) are worse than CX.

What is good of CX is its hard products - the bed in F is still one of the best and the reversed herringbone J has more storage space than the same design of its competitors. Though the J "bed" is hard and you can feel the ridge. I always snagged extra duvets from vacant seats to make my J seat a bit more comfortable for sleeping.

As already said, its very much a cultural thing. CX crews are best described as efficient i think. They do the meal services quickly and efficiently, and then disappear to the galley. If you call them, they're at your seat within seconds, but save for the odd water run you wont see them again. Once you realise that's how they work there are few better, but many non-Chinese don't even know the call button exists, let alone feel comfortable using it. Then CX just comes across as disengaged.

^ can safely second that after cx overdose in the last 2weeks, it's just another PRC airline.

They live in Vancouver as well, a big chunk of flight attendants (I was told about 400 of them based in Vancouver). There is NO excuse for poor service because the cost of living in HK is high. And Singapore doesn`t have the servant style service, btw, the most attentive service have JAL flight attendants.

P.S. Just flown in F and was hugely disappointed by CX.

Don`t know when was the last time you visited the lounges, but The Pier and The Wing for F pax were just awful last week in terms of cleanliness and service. Even The Noodle Bar was more like canteen with very bad noodles (it was ok in April). I will avoid CX for long haul flights.

To the OP:

1. CX893 is overnight flight. I believe they expect the pax to sleep immediately after the meal service. It makes sense for them not to run around too often as it may be disturbing to other pax.

2. Yes, they do have water runs.

3. Do you have any OneWorld status? For people with OneWorld Emerald(MP Diamond), you will definitely get much better personal service. I don't know if OneWorld Sapphire/Ruby will get the service Emerald does. In my one PEY service from HKG to YYZ. Pre-flight drink, J main dish, amenity kit. I can see they pay much more attention to me than all other pax(mostly because I am in OW Emerald, and the rest of the PEY cabin isn't). I slept for most of the flight, and the ISM came to me preflight/postflight and asked me how I felt about it. Unfortunately this is the norm for JAL/CX. They care much more about OneWorld Emerald members.

4. When no one seems to walk around the cabin, please just ring the bell. I ring the bell in F, J, PEY, and Y all the time. In Y, if the majority is sleeping, then I would go to the galley and ask for some drinks. IMO, not going around to answer requests isn't equal to bad service.

ISM greeting aside, those things you listed are all part of long haul PEY services

True, yet OP was complaining specifically personalization of the service. I think OP misunderstood the personal service that every PEY pax will get, but that is not the case. Soft product and hard product? Yes, but not the personal service OP seemed to refer.

in all due respect, it is premium ECONOMY, not BUSINESS class minor. the original poster sounded disappointed and that is a shame. however, i think some people expect too much and especially participants on these aviation websites.

This is a very interesting thread.

I agree with QRC3288 on all points made in post #3.

It is interesting to see how many Americans not only had no carriers offering Premium Y - until recently - react when they fly airlines that have had the cabin for some time. Air Canada had it on their older 777 well before their received their new 788s two years ago with the fantastic Premium Y seats.

I flew AA LAX-LHR RT, and literally had one guy argue with me that the front 3 rows of Y was Premium Y. He then insists I follow him so he can show me. Not only did I tell him that those seats called "E+, Economy Comfort, Preferred" and similar are NOT Premium Y, he continued arguing until cabin crew told him AA did not have that cabin on much of it's equipment. Nuts.

On recent flights with LH, SQ, and CX, I took some time to walk around and take a look at how other airlines do Premium Y. There is a wide variation on the type of seating used and clearly, not all airlines offer the same service.

For Americans, this will change as more airlines receive or refurbish aircraft to include a proper Premium Y cabin and service. If the only difference between Y and PE/PY/PEY is the type of glass used, then there may be reluctance to pay for it.

I am quite sure the airlines that have a successful Premium Y have figured out how to advertise it, sell it and monetize it. Otherwise, it will sit empty and be the cabin where Y or Coach pax will upgrade to.


As for CX food, I will agree that the quantity and quality (in J anyway) outbound from YYZ-HKG, was fantastic. The return from HKG, not so much. Not sure why as there must be massive catering kitchen for the large number of airlines needing meals, or perhaps CX and some others choose a lower-cost option ex-HKG. Only they know.

Interestingly, the meals on SQ and LH were excellent no matter the departure point - including HKG.
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CX PE
 

I flew CX PE for the first time (SFO-HKG round trip) earlier this year. I had a similar experience. I previously flew CX intra Asia in C cabin a few times and were blown away by their services. But this PE experience was a letdown (but still better than any US carriers). JL PE (both hard and soft products) are way ahead of CX. BR PE hard product is just about the same; however, BR soft products are a bit better. Despite the letdown, everything on the ground was outstanding.

I will be flying CX PE soon in three weeks and I hope that it'll be a better in flight experience.

My two-cent
:-)