CX Premium Economy Experiences and Thoughts [consolidated]
 

Hi all,

Just to start a thread discussing your experiences with Cathay Pacific premium economy service! I am curious on your thoughts and maybe we can all share our thoughts and hopefully CX can improve on it in the long run! I flew both the long haul and regional PE, and long haul ones definitely have works cut out for CX, but the regional ones seem to need more help!

I flew TPE to HKG on CX 469 yesterday! It was on B-HOP, a four-class Boeing 747-400. The premium economy seats were pretty good especially Row 30. 30A has huge legroom and additional legrest that can be extended. However it won't be too useful if you are taller than 5' 10"! I can report that "in-arm" PTV works. There was priority boarding before regular economy passengers. The luggage allowance is 25kg.

However, the on board experiences were no different from regular economy. As sxc the moderator pointed out, Cathay Pacific has already pointed out that these new regional products will only mean better ground service, slightly better luggage allowance and a better seat. Of course, noise-canceling headsets were still provided because of the plug issues... But catering is the same as Y.

I knew about it before boarding, but after flying it, I felt that CX needs to either drop the price a bit (not only random promos) or just give it a little enhancement. Something that tells people that it is an upgraded economy experience.

Start from something easy:
1. Have a dedicated premium economy F/A! Just have him or her greeting passengers and hanging coats!
2. Curtain has to be closed between PE and EY during flight! It is a different product and CX has decided to sell it this way, so the curtain should be closed after takeoff! Someone should make sure PE passengers deplaning first!
3. The mentality of the F/As need to be changed - that applies to long haul flights! I don't care how the F/As feel about it personally, but this is a premium economy product. So they need to see it that way. People are paying extra $$$ so you need to be more proactive in working that cabin. Not having a dedicated PE F/A continues to be an issue. Maybe CX can give a little incentive for F/A to step up to this position! Give them little extra $$$ or benefit! CX is never going to add one additional F/A to do the PE service, so give a little $$$ or benefit. As of this point, most F/As don't see PE as an additional revenue stream for CX and it might be the future for business flying. They see it as a nuisance and additional workload. They don't feel proud about this product.
4. Catering - for a flight between HKG and TPE, it is cheap to not even offer a tea and coffee service for the whole Y cabin. A pack of oolong tea is just cheap and it is such difficulty to offer maybe an option of offering mini bottled waters.
For PE, I think it will be nice to offer a full beverage service, or at least offer some choices of juices, soft drinks, and water. Or offer a hot tea and coffee service! Also add a biscuit/a piece of chocolate to the meal! (26 biscuits or mini kit kat bars will not take up too much space or add too much weight!) Something that is cheap and easy! For intra-Asian flight, I think offering a business class style entree is not too much to ask, especially CX J catering is not really particularly fancy. Steamed chicken with mushrooms is not fancy to begin with. Even if they don't want to do a J entree, just offer a little additional something - maybe bottled waters and/or some ice cream service after meals! It does not need to be Haagen-Dazs but a small tub of Movenpick ice cream or even a Dairy Farm ice cream cone will be nice! You have to remind passengers that you are flying PE! I just feel that if I am paying $4000-5000HKD oneway PE from HKG to Tokyo, I don't think I am asking too much for a bottle of Watson distilled water or an ice cream bar!

I have two more flights coming up and will report back!

Anyway, Cathay Pacific still has some touch-ups to do regarding its premium economy product especially in the regional sectors! It is clear that the lack of a "clear" PE dedicated F/A makes all those marketing silly!

Hopefully this thread can help future potential CX PE passengers to make their decisions in future travel, and to share our thoughts in how to make it a bit better!

Carfield

points 1,2, 3 I found to not have been a problem on the A340 cabin

I do not know about the 777 or the 747 although form other TR's they appear to be worse.

well at least the A340 is better for 1 of CX's 4 cabins

I actually think CX might be the only airline that offers PEY on regional routes.

Whilst some of your suggestions r nice - don't think they will bother with it as it will create more costs and honestly who will pay for the regional sectors on its own. I feel that they r designed for pax who have a mid-longhaul connection

I'm not sure CX"s prem econ is worth the money on short haul routes .

Well at least one firm I know has downgraded its regional J class travel ex-HK to PEY because of availability, and another well known bank I know of is considering the same. So even if it was designed as a longhaul connection product, the market may choose to use it differently.

the market will also have to deal with lesser frequency of flights if they choose only PE ...

First of all, I don't think it really matters between long haul and short haul Y+, regardless of how much you want to focus on it. There should be little variance between the products in the first place. And comparing it to long haul Y+ gives it some sort of basis to work from.

I think CX could learn a lot from NZ in the way their Y+ product is presented. The slight difference is that NZ doesn't have F, although there are many CX planes without F. NZ does put the premium into Y+.

1 and 3 can possibly be linked together - there should be a dedicated FA.. And I think they should serve them from the Business side rather than from the Economy side. It felt as though little attention was paid to the Y+ passengers once the curtains were closed off on my JFK-HKG flight - they were only really seen during meal times, water/snack runs or when someone pressed the call button (and maybe that was for noodles, which set off a chain reaction and plenty more started ordering them too). The FAs serving the NZ Y+ cabin also serve the J cabin. So that could cover number 3.

2. The curtains have been closed for both Y+ sectors I've been on (HKG-SYD, JFK-HKG). Maybe it's just a short route type thing - seeing that Y+ is a new concept to the bulk of the regional routes, maybe FAs just forget about closing them; not that they should or anything.

4. It seems to be ok for long haul flights. J meals mightn't cost too much more vs Y meals.. But the cost factor shouldn't be an excuse. People will pay J for the seat more so than the meal they will receive. It isn't exactly diluting the J product. I think they could be more consistent with the rest of their long haul Y+ service. And that's what the connecting passengers want - a consistent product right from their origin, through HKG and onto their destination.

HKG-SIN, find the PEY experience not value for money, especially with the pricing point. Good seat comfort, but really, the catering is the same as economy, and service disappointing. not worth the money.

*I was upgraded* but still, nothing worth to desire. i can sleep pretty well on QR economy class for medium haul, so why pay the extra bucks for the legroom with an average service and food?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought there is 1 FA dedicated to PEY?
And then the rest are all from Y. Or is that for LH flights only....?

Surely, they are not that obvious...or there to hang your coats and stuff, but I'm pretty sure there is one...

As a J flyer now (both long haul and inter-asia under both Corporate and Private), there is nothing they could do to alter the Y+ product that would have me fly it because as you say the seat is key but also front of plane ambience and comfort when flying so much.

In general it seems more of a upwards step from Y then a backwards step from J (unless as someone stated there company forces it upon them - time to update the CV!)

I absolutely agree with all your points, Carfield. Flew PEY from HKG to JNB, and it was ghastly for the amount of money I have spent. The lacking of PEY-specialized lavatory and cabin crew were two sore points. Strangely, no elite recognition for anyone (met a DM+! next to me) in the PEY and Y cabins as well.

edit: I just noticed that the thread asks for regional flights...sorry!

NZ also has way fewer business class seats on its 777's - a much smaller cabin.

CX has no intention of diverting passengers away from business to premium, and the air NZ config is only sustainable on certain routes - HKG is a different world to NZ

ALSO NZ seems to also know the Asian markets are different- look at what they are doing to their 787's

Also I think CX is quite smart in the product differentiation. If they make PEY so good, no one will buy J Class, especially on regionals.

The reason why CX even offer PEY on regional routes is down to 2 factors:

1) CX is an all wide body operation and CX use long haul configured aircraft on all routes incl. regional. As a result of this it is possible for CX to sell PEY on certain regional routes - they might as well because otherwise these seats will be empty/and or be used for upgrades/oversold flight.

2) As all long haul routes now have PEY from a selling point it will be more attractive to customers connecting to or from a long haul flight to have the PEY seat for their regional connection.

This is why on regional flights, the product is only hard product, and there are no service differentiation's to Y. The PEY on regional flights is mainly marketed to those buying PEY tickets right the way through to long haul destinations. It is not really meant to be a product for people just booking e.g. HKG-TPE-HKG.

I also think that on regional flights, CX treats Y + PE inventory as one class, but if there are people willing to pay extra to secure a seat in PE, then CX will take the money. It's kind of like paying extra for an exit row seat - if people want to pay for it, CX won't leave the money on the table, and CX incurs no extra cost as the service is the same. If there are not enough PE seats sold, then they will just "overbook" Y and seat people there for free.

Long long post.

CanucksHKG: No, unfortunately there isn't a separate, dedicated crew. Crew are rostered into positions in EY, J and F on all flights (short haul and long-haul). The crew serving PEY is just one of the assigned EY positions. There is no specialty PEY-only position. It's just an additional responsible for the crew in addition to responsibilities in the back. They all have their duties about where they stand when you board the plane, but their assignments are known internally as Y, J and F based on which galley they're assigned to. There is no PEY position.

Alas, serving two classes of service from the same galley requires more work, despite the claims on here that fewer pax in PEY means less workload. I feel quite comfortable saying there's more work required of those EY FAs, not less, with the introduction of PEY. It's the pax who pay for it. And unfortunately to Carfield's suggestion, it's simply not permitted to offer more $$ to the EY-class crew who staffs the PEY section. Crew are paid on seniority, not assignments (aka, a crew stationed in J on a flight would earn the same as if she was stationed in EY class at his/her rate. Although J is generally perceived as easier given the single-class service and significantly fewer pax).

I think CX modified the service standards a little from the beginning in acknowledgement that the FAs stuck serving PEY are overloaded (hot towels and pre-flight drinks in PEY are now to be served by the J staff, I can't remember if one or both of those were originally served by EY staff a year ago), but there is still an obvious problem here and I don't see it getting rectified any time soon.

To me, I agree with most of the thoughts above spot on. I don't know how the crew issue is resolved, I think CX could stop slightly misleading advertising pretending PEY is a totally separate class of service when it really isn't. It's a superior seat not a class. And CX could cut some easy low-hanging fruit by giving PEY J class food...even on regional flights...and making sure to draw the curtains, and then basically marketing PEY as a place to get a superior hard product versus Y. Which it very clearly is, and I think those merits will stand on their own! It really is a fine product if that's the expectation IMO. Versus telling everyone via the adverts it's a separate class and whatever those expectations entail, when CX internally doesn't even treat PEY as a separate class! (see next paragraph). From experience, it can be harder to flag down a FA when seated in PEY than when seated in regular Y.

For those who lurk on this forum, we know what we're paying for. But I have a client from the US who certainly has no clue what FT is, and recently paid for PEY expecting 3rd class out of a 4 class experience....didn't just think he was getting the seat, but really an upgraded "experience" and better service than Y....and he was disappointed. I told him he should've just thought of it as an expanded seat, nothing else and ignored all the rest of the marketing BS. He probably would've been happy. But he bought all the nonsense about it was a separated cabin (on his flight, curtains weren't drawn), yadda yadda. Oops. I still think the expanded seat is 90% of the battle anyway, but having customer expectations right is a big part of customer happiness.

CX probably doesn't help the situation by not truly treating PEY as a separate class internally. If you ask why staff don't go above and beyond, one reason is CX doesn't offer the impression to crew that PEY is a truly differentiated experience. Not only are the crews from regular EY staffed into PEY (which they hate, because it basically just means more work for the same $), but staff ID tix can't even be purchased for PEY. EY, J or F only. I find it amusing that CX is making such a big deal to pax about PEY being a separate class but internally it's not as clear cut. And by not making it entirely clear-cut internally, you end up with staff on the planes who don't really see it as being different either, hence the lackadaisical attitude about closing curtains and whatnot.

I see it as a fairly easy fix for CX....just reset customer expectations, draw the damn curtains, and serve J food. Done. The seat IMO is very comfortable already and is basically akin to civilized economy class.

My question is why would you pay the $1-2,000 premium? On a regional flight, where I can tolerate even 17 inch A320/777s 10 abreast, I would absolutely treat PE as an more expensive but more available fare bucket of Y.

More expensive fare bucket of Y is the exact mentality I'm going for when booking a SIN-HKG one way mid-next month...but I'm using every hold ticket trick to see if Y will open up instead.

On the longer haul routes (I'm thinking HKG-SYD in particular), I can see where CX is coming from - they don't want $14K fares cannibalising their $34K fares <--- ultimately these passengers are the ones CX are concerned about - they do PE too well, and HK corporates like mine will start writing in PE into travel policies for medium-level staff like me.

It doesn't help that CX has done a bait-and-switch on this route with PE - its competitors (QF and VS) do offer seperate cabin and do offer much better meals and amenities. For CX to call its product Premium Economy really fits the tort of passing off (yes I know that accusation has legal implications - and I think QF/VS have a good shot at getting CX for it).

Wondering with the HKG-MNL flights where CX uses the long-haul aircraft, how many passengers (who are not connecting beyond HKG) actually pay for PE and J and how many people get upgraded, given the current service offering and the less-than-optimal value for money.

Ah, found it. It must have been this article that misled me:
http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...g-kong-flights
Maybe maortega15 could help us clarify?

Not noticed, either when I'm sitting in PEY or the Y section behind it.

Interestingly this document clarifies how CX sees PE service http://learning.cathaypacific.com/assets/pdf/all_00.pdf :

There is no mention in the document about dedicated Y staff for PEY.

Which is, precisely what QRC3288 described. CX still view it as the same cabin internally :p

Including:

http://learning.cathaypacific.com/assets/pdf/all_00.pdf
Page 42:

Possibly this document hasn't been updated for the introduction of Regional PEY. On the CX website, they make a disctinction that service enhancements and catering enhancements are only for long haul flights:

Well, to be frankly honest even regional J doesn't get water (I've been to BKK in J last month). I'm not surprised regional PEY doesn't.

I can confirm long-haul PEY (i.e. HKG-SYD in my case) gets Evian.

I'm wondering if it will help to have a copy of the learning guide handy during the flight (strategically open at the relevant pages) lol

Some great points above. An issue with CX ex HKG is their pricing . I initially wanted to fly CX to Tokyo during CNY. Econ class alone was 12000 HK. I got a flight on NH for 8000 HK. As a *G can use the lounge and get an extra bag as allowance. It becomes a no brainer

Sorry, I don't see how this case here is relevant.
1) You're referring to EY fare.
2) At $12k HKD for a HKG-NRT economy flight, chances are you were booking very last minute for CNY.
3) Your profile list you're a SL. You would also had lounge access and extra bag allowance on CX too.

Interesting to read about the experiences in Premium Economy as I’m looking to book a flight from India to Hong Kong later in the year.

I have some Asia Miles to use up and will be my first time on CX so it’s looking like I will be better off using up a little more miles and going from Y to J instead and missing out Premium Economy although it’s only a 5 hour flight.

(CX Gold card holder through Amex)

It is relevant given that if that was the Y fare, imagine what Y+ would have been. In terms of the context of the thread, CX's pricing ex-HKG, balancing the price of Y+ for the benefits means that people are starting to question the worth of flying what CX consider as being still Y class. No, it wasn't a last minute fare at all.

Re lounge access, that's my point. Why travel CX for $4,000 more when I can get the same benefits on a *A carrier?

I'm pretty sure Y-J upgrades using Asia Miles aren't allowed if Premium Economy is sold on the flight....those award charts showing Y-J mileage totals are still up there as a lot of regional flights don't offer PEY yet, so J is the next class above Y.

Mileage upgrades are only permitted to be one class up. I don't know if CX sells PEY to/from India but if they do you'll have to buy a PEY seat to upgrade to J.

Given all the protests that are going on in BKK, CX still charges HK$3,600 before taxes and surcharges for K booking class during CNY to BKK, while TG charges HK$2,400 before taxes and surcharges (I didn't check booking class). Yes Y+ pricing must be out of whack for BKK too.

Apologies to the mods if going off topic. That's interesting given that EK's J class is a little over $4000. In the context of the thread, its interesting to see what the market thinks of CX's Y+ intra-Asia pricing.

But that's the thing.. An upgraded meal isn't going to be the point of deciding what cabin to buy, yet it gives some consistency to the Y+ product. If someone was to fly in Y+ long haul but then buy a separate ticket regionally, you'd want to give that person more of a reason to pay more for Y+ over Y. You're not going to sway the marginal J passengers down to Y+ in the first place - this is more to give a bit more 'prestige' to the Y+ cabin over the Y cabin. Those in J know that they'll be receiving the space etc (not to mention lounge access if they are non-status pax) which Y/Y+ can't offer.

I realise that CX and NZ are different but seeing that only one FA is really needed to keep an eye on the Y+ cabin, it wouldn't be a detriment to the J service if one J FA 'looked after' the Y+ cabin (reassigning that Y+ FA to be part of the J FA crew rather than the Y FA crew). Having a different mentality (in this case, a premium FA over a Y FA) goes a long way to 'talk up' the product; and word of mouth can carry the message telling people that Y+ is definitely worth it over Y.

Agree totally with the sentiments here, but I think it's practically impossible.

Hopefully this doesn't get too confusing, but here goes: You can't assign 1 dedicated FA to look after PEY by borrowing a J FA...you'd need 2. The way J (and Y) works is you have FAs whose responsibility is one sector, and the sectors are by aisle. There are indeed two BCs assigned to the J cabin (presumably the BCs would be stuck with PEY service), but they operate in totally separate parts of the J cabin. FAs just aren't assigned their position by row because it's impractical without a galley to walk through. They can't climb over seats ;). The way they blend the J/PEY pre-flight service currently is just 2 different FAs bring hot towels down their respective A or K aisle that is their responsibility for the flight (I'm using 77H as example but the concept holds for all the planes) and those two FAs continue on through PEY.

So yes, the follow up is you could therefore have 2 J FAs serve PEY which is probably how it should be done in an ideal world, but you have the unfortunate issue of a breakdown in cabin integrity between J and PEY. Because the FAs are going to have to go back and forth either through the curtain, or you just have to eliminate the curtain altogether. Either way, and you're basically inviting the PEY passengers up into the J section, and I probably wouldn't want to pi$$ off the J pax by doing that. The other not-so-good-solution is to only have one J FA serve, and cross over on the first row of PEY in front of the pax in the bulkhead. But that's really a terrible idea especially when they're carrying food, drinks or hot beverages, and still doesn't get around the fact the J FAs will have to cross through the curtain to PEY.

The problem...which I think CX whiffed on, but it's probably not a big enough problem to reconfig planes for....is they screwed up not putting PEY next to a galley on 77H. By not having it next to a galley they saddled themselves with this "who serves PEY" problem and what's the best bad solution. Can't say it's new to CX, in the last 6-7 years, CX really has whiffed at configging their planes efficiently - there was the old J rollout, short-lived 77D which they quickly scrapped, etc. Wasting money because they can't seem to get the designs right the first time.

Agree with all your points here. I am curious, however, to see what you think CX did wrong with configuring their old planes efficiently. What was wrong with the 77D?

I think OP was referring to the fact that right after they spent money reconfiguring the lavs on the 77D, they introduced PEY, which necessitated reconfiguration yet again.

The reconfiguration of the bathroom during the 77D refit was so that the (future) PEY cabin would have a dedicated bathroom. I guess the only way to solve this "FA" issue would be to reconfigure the Y galley right behind the PEY cabin as well.

Fair enough. Such annoying complications due to the layout! It's such a pity too. Let's hope they fix something by the time the 779s arrive.