New KA First Class
 

...or aka CX's FB2 Business Class

http://theclub.cathaypacific.com/dbm...cid=CX61AE1312

http://imageserver.hk/dbm_enews/imag...216/banner.jpg

Don't be surprised if they use this trim and color for the next refresh of the long-haul business class! :)

Same colour scheme as the updated CX first class with a hint of DA crimson. Not bad.

Actually wouldn't mind seeing this colour and trim in the CX J cabin!

New KA First Class
 

Is First Class really necessary for KA given only regional flight..? Even CX to Aussie dropped First long time ago...

Why not? Realistically...it's just a J seat.

So, I guess this is the third variation of the successful 'worlds best business class' product after CX and AA

Webb's whinged about it

http://webb-site.com/articles/notclassy.asp

Obviously that would be a more than luxurious product for a regional flight. He should probably try the 'first' class in US first before winging

Yea, it is at least from a CX economics perspective. The economics are that flights are shorter reducing fuel burn, and there are mainlanders (and HK-based travelers) willing to pay for F service on regional flights to/from China. I'm not sure if you've flown the existing KA F config, but it kinda sucks. It's actually rather uncomfortable - I prefer the big Lazy Boy chairs in J, especially if nobody is sitting in front of me. Having the CX J class now be KA's F is pretty cool. Admittedly I will rarely be paying for it, but I do think there is demand.

Aussie is (again, from economics perspective, not pax perspective), bluntly, a poor-yielding F route, hence it got dropped. Lots of competition, mid/long range (9+ hours) means more incremental fuel burn, and there just aren't enough folks willing to shell out USA-like prices for F (15k+ USD). Everything is an opportunity cost and I just don't think it's worth it for CX to send F configged planes down there. It certainly doesn't justify using an elite config like the 77H down to Oz when you probably can't price that F ticket more than 7-8k USD tops or risk having empty cabins. Even then I think you'd be pushing it, you can get J down to SYD for 4-6k USD. Competition is just too fierce and there aren't enough pax with the type of budget versus, say JFK-bound pax.

Versus KA, they've already got F configged planes, but the F class hard product kinda sucks. This will definitely be an improvement, and I bet it doesn't cost CX/KA a whole lot because they already have the seat contract with CX. Maybe the planes were going in for maintenance/refurbs anyway.

Finally, as for Webb...I really enjoy reading that guy's stuff, unfortunately that post of his was ridiculous. Embarrassing. "Title inflation". Go complain about something more substantial. FWIW, count me as a pax that is stoked that KA is using CX's J class for their F. As mentioned above, this is definitely an upgrade from KA's existing F product. I don't expect CX's F when I'm flying a 3 hour flight to PEK. What a clown.

He should be careful what he asks for....The current CX business class could be easily renamed to CX First Class.

Existing first - http://www.dragonair.com/ka/en_HK/tr...rst-class.html

CX operates first class on certain regional routes

they are unable to operate to China

of course KA needs a first class cabin!!!!

and this one looks really stylish.

CX is operating PEK and PVG route

yes but they may need more than CX first class capacity to that route than available- they are not nuts

is great KA chose a new first class instead of repeating the business class

those who dislike this drastic improvement of product can go fly China southern!!

KA is currently the flight of choice for rich people in China. Offering First Class is smart because Chinese would pay for it. When KA offered itself with WNZ-HKG route this virtually destroyed China Eastern. And the J class of that route is always full when I fly it every so often.

Excellent, now all CX needs to do is drop a 330 into CNX and I can avoid BKK [and change timing; current weeBus service notwithstanding] :D Actually, with the increasing number of mainland China flights heading towards CNX, this could be a realistic possibility...

Er, no. At least the fifth. The first airline to use it was US Airways (the Envoy Suite). Also Delta: http://blog.apex.aero/cabin-interior...opnotch-seats/. CX made it famous, of course. AA were next. Air France have also decided to adopt it: http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-france-p...business-class. KA are a bit late to the party :p

I think those are similar variations, but AA and KA used the exact same hard product just with different color scheme

this seat only became famous after the CX modifications.

also because CX HAS it on the highest number of planes on earth - it is seen as CX seat by passengers (when infact US introduced it-albeit a weaker version)

i thought KA was 7- QR and EVA also have this

I'm a bit confused by this statement... the current F seat is the same width as the J offering on that aircraft, the F seat has a greater recline, and a completely horizontal leg-rest, plus the option of a 'flat bed', and of course mountains of room.

What for you makes the J seat more comfortable than the F one?

I don't think that the J seat is more comfortable than the old F, but just to clarify, although the seat surface is flat, it is a sloped flat seat. It is the same as the CX J class from 2002-2006.

I guess it's all personal preferences, but the following:

1.) My back gets uncomfortable with the KA F seat, whereas it doesn't in the J lazy-boys.
2.) It is a slopey horizontal leg-rest as sxc points out above, which I don't like.
3.) Seat is not as cushioned as J. I feel like there are hard edges in the F class seat and am always kinda fidgeting around trying to get comfortable after a position gets sore.
4.) Count me as one who thinks the whole "flat bed" thing is somewhat deceptive....I actually sleep better in the KA J seat back as a recliner than the slopey KA F! I'm usually napping on KA for a few hours, and those slopey beds don't do it for me. I can't fall asleep on them. Whereas I can always fall asleep sitting upright in a comfortable recliner for a few hours. I wouldn't want a recliner for a 16 hour flight to JFK, but for an hour or two nap ex-PVG they're great.

I agree the space is nice because nobody can recline into you. For me that's the major benefit of existing F (the J seats really can get in your face if you've got someone in front, which always kinda sucks). But count me as one though who really likes CX's long-haul J, and I'm very pleased to see it going in KA F. I think it's a huge upgrade from someone who never really cared for KA's existing F. I usually don't book KA J or F, but I suppose if I really needed to work this F class might be worth it once in a while in a pinch. Versus before, I think I've only ever paid for KA F when I was on a F ticket ex-somewhere else (aka not originating in HKG). I've always contended that CX's long-haul J really is the ultimate regional seat too....I think it's a good move.

And I suppose if you're flying on those one or two mid range KA flights to India or wherever, this will be nice.

there is a setting for the leg-rest for full flat (bed mode is angled). there was trip report recently on another forum which I'll try to find. the setting is possible because of the increased pitch.

edited to add report here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer.c...hai-55691.html

(but I agree the new seats will a welcome addition!)

Er... Yes, I know. That's why I said "CX made it famous, of course". So I'm not quite sure what you were trying to add there...

Actually, they aren't exactly the same. To give just one example, according to their website, the KA seat has a bed extension (like the CX J seat), but the AA seat (which I have tried) doesn't. No doubt there are other differences too

If a market exists, why not bilk them?

Obviously you're missing his point. He's not doing a seat comparison between US airlines and Asian airlines. He's not comparing the old First Class seat and the new First Class seat. Webb's point is completely valid - the first class seat (and first class pricing) is a CX business class seat with new covering - it is NOT a first class seat. I had the same reaction as him when I saw it.

The Cirrus seat was originally marketed by its manufacturer as a first class seat. It is being used by AA as a first class seat on its (three-class) transcontinental services. So you can't legitimately claim that it isn't a first class seat, just because some long-haul airlines also use it as a business class seat.

You also need to bear in mind KA is a regional airline. With very limited exceptions (such as BLR, which may be switched to CX anyway) its flights are primarily short-haul, and at most are medium-haul. For that length flight, this is perfectly appropriate as a first class seat, IMHO.

New KA First Class
 

I would think this: given KA's new J seems in the pictures to be CX's new regional J (I haven't been on KA's new J yet, so happy to be corrected), then having CX's long haul J product for F seems to be reasonable because it is a step up, as it offers lie flat and more personal space.

US was first in using these seats.

AF will have an edge over other european airlines (BA+LH+LX) if these seats to be installed ^

CX also uses those seats for LONG-HAUL routes

KA uses it for SHORT-HAUL routes

hardly any confusion or sneakiness there.

ithe KA first class seat is now the top short haul dedicated first class seat on earth.

if Mr Webb would like lower standards and a simple recline seat like the rest- he should zip it and fly mainland airlines!!!

seriously- even when KA/CX improve their product to the top people complain.....

CX uses this type of seats for long haul business class only.

:D

There is of course the rotation of aircraft and hence you may see long-haul business class seats show up with say the flights to/from Manila.

Has any airline solved the issue of the persons sitting in D/K seeing the TV screens of the neighbours if the TV screen is lodged in the original position ?

According to wikipedia, KA only has 6 a330s with a first class cabin, so the retrofit should be a fairly quick process, right? Maybe 2 or 3 months?

Retrofit + a D-check = A month or so per plane.

And since this thread has been bumped
 

Who updates this page?:
http://www.flyerguide.com/wiki/index...air_(KA)_Fleet

Not sure why The new First class has not been added. :confused:

Plus all the planes might not be due a D-check sequentially.

It would still take a month or so regardless.