LHR Passport Control
 

I have a British Passport, but my wife and 2 young kids have American & Turkish passports.

Can we all go through the Brit passport line together, do we have to split up, or can I go through the non Brit line with them?

(Sorry it's not BA related, but I am banking on a lot of Brits with the same problem!)

Hi PP

I am afraid they will not be allowed to go through the UK/EU line with you. You will be allowed to go through the non-EU line with them but you may get soem funny looks by the person sat at the entrance to the line.

The immigration officers have absolutely no problems with British passport holders going through the non-EU queue. As CT-UK says, though, the queue managers sometimes have a different idea. If they cause you trouble and insist on you splitting up from them, you can be equally insistent on staying together. Eventually they give in. That's my experience, anyway.

"If they cause you trouble and insist on you splitting up from them, you can be equally insistent on staying together. Eventually they give in. That's my experience, anyway."

You could of course all go through the EU queue. Apparantly, the IO at the desk has to serve anyone who turns up regardless of whether they have a EU passport or not

Dave

You're not supposed to go through the EU queue but you can get away with it.

My sister does not hold a GB passport but since she was born in the UK she has right of abode. She always gets strange looks when she goes through the EU line and only when they see her place of birth do they say ok.

She's quite adamant that she wants to retain her current citizenship instead of being British.

Dave, I don't know the rules but I have seen people turned away even after a lenghty argument. I even heard the reason once as this desk does not have the relevemt stamp to let you in.....

Im fairly sure that all IOs have stamps, they just don't tend to need them in the EU queue. I have heard it reported that an IO cannot refuse to process an immigration regardless of the queue, but having a UK passport have never had the need to test it out

Dave

[This message has been edited by Dave Noble (edited 06-05-2003).]

1) I've seen people turned back at the EU immigration posts in Heathrow

2) I can't believe that an IO HAS to process someone, given that it's way more complex for them to admit a non-EU passenger (in the vast majority of circumstances).

Infact, i'm sure we (EU Passport holders) would have noticed if point 2 didn't apply - the usual stream of just flashing your passport & being waved through would soon come to a grinding halt. After all, that's why there's usually just 2 booths open for EU arrivals and up to a dozen for non-EU arrivals, isn't it?

I'm sure that if there's no queue and it's an easy non-EU passport to process, the IO at the EU desk might make an exception. But I too have seen non-EU passport holders turned away and told to join the non-EU queue.

At LHR and (I think) LGW, there is a practice where a person holding a non-EU passport but who already has indefinite leave to remain in the UK, and who is travelling with an EU passport holder, can use the EU lane. (I have recently asked specifically about this at T4 because of my personal circumstances at the moment.) The reason is that the person who has ILR will almost certainly be admitted without question and without necessarily even needing to have their passport stamped again, although that is often done.

Interestingly, an IO at STN told me in equally certain terms last December that they did not run this concession there, although they were aware that LHR did. (A bonkers attitude, if you ask me.)

Also, a person who does not hold an EU passport but has the right of abode in the UK (this is a different status from ILR) and has that properly certified in their passport (usually by a "certificate of entitlement") is entitled to be admitted without more - no passport stamp is necessary or given. They are equally quick to process and are normally permitted to use the EU queue.

Theory and practice do not always match.

A British citizen with a right of abode has a legal entitlement to enter the UK whether or not they have or show a passport, whereas they have no right to leave without a passport (for historical reasons leaving the country requires the consent of the Crown).

Is it not curious then, that the passport checks are on inbound rather than outbound passengers ? Before I am flamed, the reasons are obvious, but it is - from a legal standpoint - a curious anomaly.

I am pretty confident that neither of these positions is, or is any longer, true.

On entry, the only methods of proving a right of abode which an IO is required to accept are either a United Kingdom passport showing the person to be a British citizen or a "citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies" having the right of abode, or a certificate of entitlement to the right of abode - section 3(9) of the Immigration Act 1971.

Also, section 1(1) of the Immigration Act 1971 provides that anyone with the right of abode "shall be free to live in, and to come and go into and from the United Kingdom without let or hindrance". Macdonald's Immigration Law and Practice says "there is certainly, except in the limited situation referred to below, no power to prevent the person's departure for any immigration reason" (the limited situation being orders under emergency powers, which have never been made) - see paragraph 4.39 of the fifth edition. It is likely that a requirement of the Crown's consent to departure of a British citizen from the country would now be regarded as a breach of human rights norms. There is a power to check your identity and nationality, but that is not quite the same thing.

There actually used to be signs up in the immigration area on departure (when departure controls still existed) warning people that if they decided to depart without a valid passport, they were likely to face difficulties at their destination and on re-entry to the UK.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 06-05-2003).]

I would hope that Immigration send non-EU Passport holders to the non-EU section. Why should I be held up because someone is in the "wrong" queue? Given the lenghty queues we suffer trying to enter countries such as the US, I would hope that we are not overly lenient.

I think, but correct me if I'm wrong...

"Right to Abode", generally by birth, should be able to use the "EU" line

"Indefinite leave to remain" should generally use the "All Other Passports" line. However, at certain terminals, there is a special line for permanent residents and visa holders. eg, apparently the special line at LHR T1 has been in operation since last August, although I never noticed it until 2 months ago... Not sure which other terminals or airports have this line, but would love to know... Anyone???

I have asked my husband whilst this is not his actual line of work, he does get involved with such matters.

Don't try it was the response. There is a reason. The EU line is really just an ID check as technically anyone can travel within the EU with National ID cards only. Brits have to show passports as we do not have Identity Cards. Thus it is a fast track cursury glance service, and would not deal with non-EU passports, as they have to be stamped. They would be sent back to the non-EU line.

Sorry I know that is not the answer that you would like. In addition, delay in that EU line causes commotions from those delayed behind. They do not discuss the matter.

It is actually quite frightening the power that IOs have. They are ususally very fair, and very accommodatating but they have procedures, and this would be outside those.




[This message has been edited by PUCCI GALORE (edited 06-06-2003).]

Sorry, I just noticed this...

As a UK permanent resident for all my life, who pays (lots and lots of) UK taxes, I object to this assertion. Having experienced both post-9/11 lines and secondary interviews en route to the US, and LHR T3 immigration in the morning when several 747s have arrived simultaneously an hour early and perhaps there are only 3-4 immigration officers are on duty (with lots of others standing around doing nothing), I can guarantee you that the much-maligned US is really Not-That-Bad. Even JFK and LAX.

The move to having a separate UK visa/permanent resident line (see post above) is a start. But, frankly, the state of UK arrivals immigration for non-EU passport holders (esp at T3) is a shambles, and needs to get sorted.

Of course, if PapaPenguin is flying C or F, make sure you pick up some of those pink Fast Track forms to jump the worst of the queue.

My point was that people not entitled to use the EU line should not use it. If I tried to use the US Citizen line at a US Airport I be sent to the non-US Citizen lines.

And don't forget that for non EU people that an IO has right to refuse entry to any non EU national (except those claiming politcal asylum). This is a very empowering law in the UK that the right of entry is granted to a person at the coal face. This is power is enforcable even if a person has a valid entry visa.

So getting into the 'wrong' queue might end up turning a fews hairs and if you get someone that has had a bad day things might just get worse for you.

An interesting first hand account of being an IO.

My Love. In your dreams! I go through arguably more often than anyone. I assure you that we bless the crew exits that allow us into the USA without going through the lines.

There are times when it is better than other, but in the main it is ghastly for people who have come in on long flights and are in the Non-US line( at least they are no longer aliens!). I will admit readily that some airports are not so bad, but LAX is grim, Miami is a disgrace, and IAD is unspeakable. A friend of mine took 90 minutes the other day.

Whilst we are about it, could you please tell me why we have to hand out reems of paper to people going into the USA, and a small card to those coming into the UK.

Where please is the Fast Track for Business and First Class passengers?

I am sorry that you are inconvenienced at T3/4 or any other, but I assure you that it is more than reciprocal.

If I hear one complaint more than any it is is about Immigration in the USA- Sorry! If you think that I sound peeved, it is memories of similar lines at the US frontier over the years. I just tell everyone, endure it as best you can, it is so unlke anything else you will experience in the USA.

FWIW, PapaPenguin, if accompanied by his (presumably) U.S. citizen wife, can along with his children use the U.S. citizens line when entering the U.S.

What they are supposed to do and what they actually do are different matters.

On many occasions when the "other" queue is very very long and the EU line non-existant, I have gone through the EU queue. Generally I am very nice and make state that my flight was late, I will be late for a meeting and could they please process me. This has worked 99% of the time (the only time it did not work was when I was behind 2 747's of Indians/Pakistanis, and the UK agent, himself of sub-continental ancestry, gave me a line like "so you think your more important than all them because you're not Indian, right??".

In 99% of cases they will let dependants through with you.

In the case of the US, they actually WANT US passport holders to go through with dependants as it severely cuts down overall transaction time across the board (imagine, you are a US citzen, your wife is not. You sail through and go wait for the bags. She gets the third degree and says she is married to a US citizen. The line then stops until you are located to "vouch" for her).

HFly, Love. Have you ever done it. or just watched it happening?

Anyway, no doubt Papa Penguin will be delighted with the lack of consensus, and will let us all know how he gets on.

Whatever (sorry attention span exceeded on the yes they do not they don't discussion when I happen to know what they actually do)
Maybe someone who actually has will let us all know. OIf Him Indoors has misled us, he will die.

Simple problem, simple solution.

Hello Pucci,

I can't beleive I'm bold enough today to address you but I'll try.

In the USA the "Fast Track" is call an INSPASS Card.

Although the machines never work...you just by-pass the line...stand by the machine with your card out and they wave you on in.

And speaking of lines....I'm a Terminal 3 man and if your flight arrives after 7:30am it looks like high season at Disneyland with all the lines twisting and turning.

Yes...thank you for Fast Track!!

Love your posts....love your airline (when I fly on award travel....thanks Diners Club)

Dear Pucci,

I laughed hard when I read your post about the nasty US Immigration crew. While I do not completely disagree with you, I think that the UK Immigration Crew at LHR is certainly on the same level of nastiness.

I do fly your Favourite Airline quite regularly, in addition to UAL, and I used to show my face at LHR almost every week, sometime 3 times a week if I fly into London on my way to and fro the Continent.

I am SURE that the Immigration Officer at LHR knows the regularity of my visits to the Kingdom by merely scanning my rather thick US passport (due to addl pages being added), but he/she kept on insisting on this line of questioning:
1) Q: why do you want to enter the UK, A: because my Company has an office here in London (I usually do not mention that I'm that Ltd Co's CEO, and that Co employs Brits)
2) Q: how long will you be in the UK? A: until this weekend/until next month/until whatever (DUH! I believe that us Yanks are automatically issued a 6 months (or is it 3 months visitor visa?)
3) Q: who will be paying your salary and expenses while you are in the UK? A: My company (DUH!!!) This one has got to top ALL of IO's questions anywhere!

I'm frankly surprised that they did not asked me to produce my return ticket before stamping my passport! Now, if I was to apply for asylum in the UK, perhaps I will be treated better? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Funny thing is, whenever I go thru the FastTrack line, none of this bullcrap ever occur? Amazing or what!!!

Thanks for all the interesting discussions. I always love how a very basic question can generate a series of insightful and amusing responses.

The last time I returned to the UK I had one kid in a stroller + wife and was waved through to a completely empty line by a nice smiling geezer.

This time I have 2 kiddos in 2 strollers + wife, so we can't easily split up, hence the question. It seems like the non EU line is the best bet unless I see another friendly queue/line manager.

BTW, I also have a US passport so returning to the US is a snap (we can at least get in the same line) as long as you can work out which carousel of the two at LAX Tom Brad your bags will turn up on.

I assume that you didn't have a visa for these trips. In that case, the IO is the person responsible for finding out which category of entry you are seeking and then deciding whether you satisfy the legal criteria for entry in that category. The IO must, as a matter of law, find out and satisfy himself/herself of these things every time you seek to enter the UK. Three straightforward questions seem to do it in your case, you don't seem to have any problems in answering them, nor do your answers seem to cause any of the IOs to doubt the fact that you do qualify to enter.

I, however, vividly remember having to explain to an immigration inspector at CLT how my friend was having work done on the foundations of her house, and that she therefore couldn't put me up, which was the reason why I was staying in a hotel rather than with her.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 06-06-2003).]

I am in the UK on a work permit. I never ever have my passport stamped - it it was, I'd be going through way too many passports ! My worst experience was flying into LGW from Munich - a very short flight. I was beaten to the line by an Air Jamaica flight. Four hours in the immigration queue after a short haul flight !!! I missed my meeting and was not at all happy.... I have noticed the new lines they now have - but only at LHR T1 ...

They would have stamped your permit at time of first entry with it - otherwise it could be assumed you entered illegally. The UK stopped stamping on every re-entry past the first back on 1 July 2000. They do log your passport number though.

I apologise right now for even thinking of doubting the Oracle, but I fear that Pucci Galore may have left out the word NOT:

... Brits have to show passports as we do not have Identity Cards ...

Sadly, not true.

To get an INSPASS card, you have to be interviewed by the INS (or Office of Homeland Security or whatever it's called these days), be photographed, be fingerprinted and have your hand dimensions recorded.

To my certain knowledge, this does not (yet?) apply to Fast Track passengers in the UK.

It is even more frustrating when, having endured the procedure described above, you can't use the INSPASS machines because they're switched off, defective or non-existant.

So why bother to get one? Well, it's one way of getting 'photo ID' for when you're checking in at a Hilton or buying a burger http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Funny how experiences vary. I come through IAD at least once a month clutching my visa (not eligible for INSPass either) and only once did it take me an hour, usually 5-15 mins at varying times of the day. In fact twice I've got through quicker than my fiancee who is a U.S. Citizen. Soon I'll hold that Green Card and I'll be wandering through the other line. JFK for me is the pits.

Many a time all they do with me is swipe the visa and then say to me Welcome Back Sir. My poor fiancee gets the third degree every time she has gone through LHR!

Hey ho

The poor old BAAg is going bonkers, take no notice, and I have corrected it.

ThanksXXXXXX

My Love, you address me as often as you like. Some of the things i get called at work make me wish there were more like you!

Thanks for making me feel special!


XXX

Globaliser,

In case you don't know, us Yanks and you Brits do NOT need to a visa to enter each other's country - it's called the Visa Waiver Program, so no I didn't have a visa because I did NOT need one.

Besides, you missed the point. I have no problem with the IO asking me those questions one or may be two times. But to be asked those rather asinine questions quite a few more times (not every time mind you) when upon swiping my US passport onto his electronic reader or simply leafing through it to see the uncountable number of "LHR Immigration" stamps in it, now that's what I call been given the Third Degree, as so eloquently stated by DCBritboy.

BTW, the point of this posting is to compare the nastiness of the Immigration Officers of the US and the UK, and IMHO, it's a solid tie http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Globaliser:
[B] [QUOTE]Originally posted by sapguy:
[b]QUOTE]I assume that you didn't have a visa for these trips.

yes - of course :-) Not since, though ....

This is an absolutely sweeping generalisation (I know) - but I had a chat with someone who used to be an immigration officer last night. He said that because it is such a boring job, people like to do things to make it interesting ... hence they ask difficult questions, knock back a few people here and there and so on. They like a good fight to bring some interest into the day. And to be honest, I can't blame them ....

You know, funnily enough, in the UK it isn't called the Visa Waiver Program or even Visa Waiver Programme. There isn't any such thing - that's a USA thing. To come into the UK, nobody needs a visa unless (a) they are coming for a purpose for which they need a visa or (b) they are a national of one of the countries on the visa list, who need visas for all entries to the UK. But, anyway, it looks like I guessed right. And here you're missing the point. The law requires the IO to ask you the questions. Every time. However stupid it might seem. Of course, you will sometimes come across some lazy or bored ones who don't, but strictly speaking they are not doing their job properly if they don't.

I can't say anything about the attitude of the immigration officers on each side. On a personal basis, I only have dealings with the ones in the US so I can't compare them to the ones here. But I do know about the law.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 06-06-2003).]

All things considered, no reason not to have a bit af fun for all concerned.....

IO: What is the purpose of your journey?
Me: If I have the idiom correct, I'm going on a ripper down Jermyn Street and leaving a pile of Sterling behind.
IO: That's what we like to hear.

On another occasion-

IO: What is the purpose of your journey?
Me: I have an appointment with my tailor.
IO: So, like things British do you?
Me: Well, if you've tried to have a suit done by Brooks Brothers reciently, you wouldn't be asking me that. There is no where else to go.

Some day, I'll probably be dragged away, but until that day comes http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Wow! Now you're showing me the LAW http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

That must make you a barrister or a solicitor, huh? Or may be an MP? Labour or Torie? or Lib Dem or others? Good Mate with Red Ken per chance? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Spare me the details, but there are ways to do one's job right and there are ways not do so. I think that the comments by both ozzie and eMailman are sensible and right on (bravo Gents), unlike yours which smack of being a snotty Brit and mine which smack of being an arrogant and ugly American http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif