Urgent Help request: BA58 CPT -> LHR 26 Feb : oversold
 

My friends are due to travel on BA58 tonight, 1845 CPT LHR in Y.
They have been issued boarding passes but the boarding passes have no seat numbers.
The check in agent has told them they are now "on standby", but looking at EF the flight seems very full.

Reaching out to FT to see if anyone has advice for them. They need to be in London tomorrow morning for work.
BA42 could work timing wise but also looks very full.

What can I advise my friends to say or request the agent in CPT to do in order to get them home to London for work tomorrow morning?
Thanks!

JNB is full so no obvious re-route option with BA. They could ask for seats on Swiss which seems to have good availability tonight and will get them to LHR at 8:05.

From a quick check of the availability, including with other obvious connections, there appears to be little availability in Y. So the advice has to be to hang tight and cross fingers.

The flight is quite oversold in Y (and this is not including a very large number of staffers), and it's not like there'll be a lot of people missing connections. BA42 is oversold as well, though by a smaller margin. Not much you can do besides advising your friends to ask for a re-routing via another carrier?

If they opt to split the reservation, one person may yet be OK for BA58. There may be some space on the Condor service to FRA, but hopefully they will find some space on the LHR or LGW service, even if it means bumping off staff ticket travellers.

All flights leaving CPT this evening are very busy so their best hope is for a late cancellation or a misconnect. BA will pay for their accommodation and meals if they have to stay another night. Tomorrow is also looking busy so their best bet would be with LH to FRA which shows 3 available in Y at the moment.

I just checked, there's no confirmed staff to bump off, they're all waitlisted (some might get jumpseats, and there is one crew rest but that's captain's discretion). Similarly, BA42 has no confirmed staff.
BA2040 to LGW is also oversold.

I just checked on the interline system for Swiss: the CPT-ZRH fare classes I can see are J0 C0 Y0 B0 M0. LH is similar: J0 C0 G0 Y0 B0 M0. Condor is slightly better: C0 D0 Y0 O0 B3 M3 H3 V1 K0 E0 L0. QR looks red too.

Thanks for the advice so far. FRA is a good suggestion but think the connection would be too much faffing about.
Will suggest possibility of splitting up if time of the essence.


Is the high number of staffers an educated guess or do you have access to information not available to mere mortals like me? Answered just before I asked!

I am crossing my fingers that there will be a misconnect somewhere freeing up some Y availability on 58 or 42.
Is it worth telling them to pro-actively ask to move to 42; or should they wait and see?

They will of course get a good chunk of cash (in addition to rerouting) if they do get bumped, so you may want to ask them how much their work tomorrow morning is worth to them.

A further question: should they wish to pro-actively change or get further assistance at the airport; bearing in mind the BA58 departure time is in just over an hour -- where should they go at CPT airport for assistance?

They are in Y with no status. They are not yet through security. I assume the check in desks can deal with ticketing at CPT?

I just checked on FLY re staffers.

In terms of inbound misconnections, the problem is that there aren't many in CPT as a rule and, as far as I could see, there's just 1 on the 58 and 3 on the 42, but they're all checked in. Right now, I think that a connection through FRA and/or ZRH is the only way forward if they want to travel today.

Interesting - Swiss has gone to 0's on Expertflyer since I posted. I assume re-routes have hoovered up the space.

The number of BA oversales haven't gone down yet, so I suppose they're blocking space?

I feel for the OP's friends. It's not helpful, but if they cannot be accommodated on the 42 or other services then hopefully the cash for denied boarding will be enough to cover the loss of a day's work. I've learnt through bitter experience not to return straight into work, especially not on an economy booking!

I don't know CPT, but a ticketing desk, in my experience, is a thing of the past. My suggestion would be to hover around the check-in desks.

We’re in the Cpt lounge at the mo - and it is rammed!!
Not many seats available

You don't fancy an extra day in sunny Cape Town by any chance? Asking for a friend, literally ;)

Ha ha - that would be great but we’re using an Amex 2-4-1 and we’re in club, so these seats are like “hens teeth!)🐥

Update: they have both been bumped from BA58.
Check-in desk have told them that "all passengers who were bumped will be on the BA42"

I am still crossing my fingers as that would seem difficult given how full the 42 looks; but maybe BA proactively moved some of them making it appear fuller than it was...

Side bar: will UK261 IDOB apply; PLUS late arrival compensation? If anyone knows which rules apply in this situation I will pass it on to try and soften the blow for them. (Assuming they make the 42!)

IDB compensation is payable at the rate of £260 if they are re-routed on flight(s) that are scheduled to get them to their final destination no more than 4 hours later. Otherwise it is payable at a rate of £520. In theory it's payable immediately, but in practice there is little consequence to BA for not doing this.

If the alternative flight(s) they're re-routed on are also delayed or cancelled, UK261 (or possibly EU261, depending on the circumstances) compensation would apply in the normal way as if your friends had been booked on those flights originally.

CWS will likely be along soon to clarify, but I don't think you can double dip.

The CJEU has held that 'double dipping' is indeed possible. EU261 (and by extension UK261) applies where passengers have a confirmed reservation on the flight concerned, or have been transferred by an air carrier or tour operator from the flight for which they held a reservation to another flight, irrespective of the reason.

You can double dip, so long as it's 2 events, and so long as they are holding a confirmed reservation on BA42 (and I bet they are not yet rebooked, if usual procedures are followed). It wouldn't be allowed if it was all sitting under one flight number (so a technical problem and swapping aircraft around, getting later and later).

But actually I suspect it is correct that inventory was held on BA42, so it's possible some BA42 original bookings won't be going tonight.

This is after the fact, but just to say it's not unusual to feel somewhat abandoned when holding a standby boarding pass. However in the background BA - in both CPT and elsewhere - will be going through the options, checking numbers quite avidly, not least because things like checked luggage - and thus weight/balance - has to be resolved before any flying can happen. The passenger is oblivious to this, and there isn't a lot of merit in giving a ball-by-ball commentary (unless you're an avid FTer) so it all goes silent. But once it's clear there is no space there is usually an update about 30 minutes to scheduled departure, sometimes a bit later on short haul. If it's no-go then the focus is on Plan B, and again a period of silence.

In this situation do BA just randomly select people to bump? Obviously being in Y with no status doesn’t help. Were they not asking for volunteers at check in to be bumped instead? Sometimes offering a higher sum than the compensation as I experienced in DXB one time.

They first bump those on Amex 2-4-1s (if FT lore is to be believed).

not according to post #16

Out of interest, when did they check in? My son and friend went through something similar in BCN as they didn’t check in till 70 minutes before departure and it was overbooked. They were also given blank BPs.

It's more like there are some people they try not to bump:
- passengers with cruise stamped bookings
- passengers with on-carriage involving connection with another airline
(the above 2 are essentially guaranteed passage)
- anyone under 18 years old travelling without adults
- staff passengers where there is a holiday entitlement at threat
- status passengers, who largely match with....
- passengers who purchased advance seating
- other on-carriage passengers
- private fares / other industry / non BA redemption where endorsement is going to cause problems.

Then there's a bit of wriggle room around families, kids going back to school, the elderly, those with disabilities. Commonsense does usually intrude here.

That then gives a pool where factors such as being a late purchaser without status and without seats may well find themselves in the spot light, even if they paid a lot more than anyone else, but it's mainly the "none of the above". I don't personally believe that 2-4-1s (etc) make much difference, with the notable exception of CW into LGW from the Caribbean, the anecdotes are just too overwhelming (and I have other reasons to believe it to be so).

So one piece of advice I would give is where it is essential to be on a flight - here due to work commitments - and you don't have status, and where like CPT the alternative airline options aren't great, then buy a seat in advance, or at least a few days before departure if WT looks more than about 40% full. It raises you quite a bit in the pecking order, since the core problem with overbooking is simply passengers without seats. Being late to check-in also means that remaining seats are gone, but when they are oversold, BA often inhibits full check in so that they don't end up with a "must fly" not having a seat.

For those following along, bad news for my friends, they haven’t got a seat on the BA42. (they originally checked in 3 hrs before the 58 btw)

It is apparently chaos at CPT check in.

Additional advice requested: what are their rights regarding accommodation etc? I seem to recall they can book anything “reasonable” but what does that mean in practice?

Furthermore, given the high loads involved, how can then guarantee a seat back tomorrow? Should they be pro active? They don’t want to gamble at check in again. Thanks

Both of tomorrow's flights are sold out, with BA58 in oversale and BA42 with 1 seat available. Ditto on the JNB flights. If they can, I'd recommend them to check in as soon as they're rebooked. There's also very few connections, 5 on the 58 and 4 on the 42.

(I was reading, on the small print in FLY, that on the 42 of today they had managed to keep 9 seats for oversales/spillovers but that wasn't enough. Not too sure about the original loads for the 42).

On-line check-in is always preferable, if available.

As an American, I'm not an expert on faffing, but getting sent home from the gate to try again another day (after having traveled to the airport, gone through security and immigration, etc) seems like more faffing than making a single connection that is very close to the final destination.

see Disruption Assistance thread - signposts and what you need to know - FlyerTalk Forums

Reasonable means ~£200 a night, or whatever is showing locally as a sort of sensible price. So you wouldn't book a £600 a night hotel when £350 is showing as available elsewhere but £350 would be ok. And food without booze and keep the receipts.

There will be a chunk of compensation too, but that's additional.

I would amplify the advice to try to check in as soon as possible to grab a seat. A free night is ok but a couple of free nights and my sense of humour would start glitching and I'd be looking for re-routing. On no account cancel the flights to rebook, that lets BA off the hook.

I agree, and applied gentle pressure, however I am more aware of my rights and am more assured about how to handle disruption (in no small part thanks to the help on this forum)

For them, they essentially trusted what they were told by the check in staff, that they were “promised” a seat on the ‘42.

That rang alarm bells for me because of the load and unfortunately turned out to be correct.

BA is still selling at least two seats in economy on tomorrow's BA58 on BA.com, so they should at least be able to get a confirmed booking on that if they can speak to someone quickly.

Whether that translates into actual seats onboard is of course a different question.

Ethiopian Airlines have two flights from Cape Town to Addis Ababa tomorrow leaving at 13:50 and 15:20, arriving at 21:15 and 22:45 respectively.

Flight from Addis leaves at 01:05 and gets to Heathrow at 06:35.

Well, REVMAN has ballsed that up spectacularly tonight. Which is unusual, it must be said.

Maybe, maybe not. If they sold a ticket for £1k one way yesterday, then after paying the OP's friend £520 plus the accommodation, they're still making perhaps £250 pure profit.

Hopefully they get sorted, not a nice situation especially for non frequent flyers.

I really hope there is no problem with their employers, understanding it might be inconvenient. Any employer who has a problem with this situation is not worth working for, but I realise not everyone is in a privileged position to make that choice.

Lighthearted question, is there any job worth 12 hours on Condor. I saw 5 colleagues come off FRA-LAS in Y a few years ago and I’m not sure they’ve ever recovered. Not helped by the fact me and another colleague were ungraded to the upper deck of the 747. I wrote performance reviews on that flight, a definite correlation to better performance that year!

Visitors to SA have four weeks left to renew visas (thesouthafrican.com) Flights departing SA likely to be busy until end of month

Hypothetically speaking and purely because I find this such an interesting subject (although easy to say when I’m not the one experiencing the stress of this) but should BA find themselves in this position tomorrow would they then take people of off tomorrow’s flight to accommodate those bumped from todays?