Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35418749)
Not a problem its always amazing when i see people trying to defend a product with all sorts of irrelevant and poor arguments. I will give you an example how subjective this forum is. Many years ago BA won some kind of 'wine cellar of the year'. FT members made a thread and praise BA for that. Next year of a few years after BA did not win anything during the same competition. The same people told us that something 'fishy' might be going on and that the assessors might be taking a cut. Ridiculous.
If you were truly adroit at reasoning, you would accept that you have pieces of evidence that support your view but that there are pieces of evidence that do not support your view. When you throw your toys out of the pram at a differing opinion, it doesn't really resonate with the idea of objectivity. |
Originally Posted by KARFA
(Post 35418743)
I don’t think you understand what objectivity is based on that argument.
And if you are going to diminish others opinions on the basis of how much you assume they fly, then surely you must allow others to subject you to the same test, please provide the details of your flights. If the survey had BA in the top 10 airlines i am sure the thread would be full of amazing commends |
Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35418774)
But how can someone be objective for products that they never tried and compare them with others? Or for products they tried once 20 years ago and keep banging about how average they were? I am not going to provide a 'report' regarding my flights but my last 10 flights were with BA,AC,AR,AV, CM and IB. Thats all during during the last 2 months.
If the survey had BA in the top 10 airlines i am sure the thread would be full of amazing commends |
Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35418774)
But how can someone be objective for products that they never tried and compare them with others? Or for products they tried once 20 years ago and keep banging about how average they were? I am not going to provide a 'report' regarding my flights but my last 10 flights were with BA,AC,AR,AV, CM and IB. Thats all during during the last 2 months.
If the survey had BA in the top 10 airlines i am sure the thread would be full of amazing commends |
Survey and cancellation rates mean very little when the cancellation happens to you - then the hit rate can be 100% for the average flyer. I use BA annually on my trips to and around the UK but last October my six trips were blighted with four being delayed at least over an hour, one was cancelled and I had to sort myself out with a hotel at 23.00 when we arrived into LHR, and the on-time flight had no Club catering. A dismal hit rate and all delays were a BA (rather than weather, ATC or strike issue).
I take no pleasure from this as UK aviation and industry needs a strong and reliable airline but BA is not that airline. Knocking out any vestige of network airline competition in the UK has got us the airline BA management wants. I fly about 150 flights per year and have a fairly good understanding of an airline that is well-run. I've booked four BA Club flights for this October - my expectations are low which should help BA surpass with ease. |
Originally Posted by CHCflyer
(Post 35418791)
Survey and cancellation rates mean very little when the cancellation happens to you - then the hit rate can be 100% for the average flyer. I use BA annually on my trips to and around the UK but last October my six trips were blighted with four being delayed at least over an hour, one was cancelled and I had to sort myself out with a hotel at 23.00 when we arrived into LHR, and the on-time flight had no Club catering. A dismal hit rate and all delays were a BA (rather than weather, ATC or strike issue).
I take no pleasure from this as UK aviation and industry needs a strong and reliable airline but BA is not that airline. Knocking out any vestige of network airline competition in the UK has got us the airline BA management wants. I fly about 150 flights per year and have a fairly good understanding of an airline that is well-run. I've booked four BA Club flights for this October - my expectations are low which should help BA surpass with ease. |
Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35418727)
I am not sure how objective someone can be when the 90%+ of their flights are with BA (or any specific airline) or when the last flight they took was in 2000.
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Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35416653)
No idea. Ages ago BA removed most of the newspapers in their lounge due to cost cutting. During/after covid they removed all of them. There was a period that you could find The Sun in the lounge but not FT. I mean the newspaper choices represent perfectly the airlines reputation :D
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Originally Posted by PUCCI GALORE
(Post 35419967)
…………... I notice that neither BA, Air France, nor Iberia offer them on board these days. As I read the Guardian on line together with The Telegraph there’s no point in having it printed.
I feel, PUCCI, it might have been worth adding “in my personal opinion” to the end of that sentence ! (YMMV and all that :) ) There is almost certainly a good number of folk who see the loss of copies of daily newspapers in the lounges as another service enhancement. The print versions do have an audience (even if declining) ; if not, they wouldn’t still be on sale. |
Originally Posted by subject2load
(Post 35419997)
I feel, PUCCI, it might have been worth adding “in my personal opinion” to the end of that sentence ! (YMMV and all that :) )
There is almost certainly a good number of folk who see the loss of copies of daily newspapers in the lounges as another service enhancement. The print versions do have an audience (even if declining) ; if not, they wouldn’t still be on sale. |
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 35417349)
But Aurigny does get its small but well trained network of supporters to vote in this, the TripAdvisor and the Which? surveys, so Aurigny - 7 aircraft, half a million passengers, some of whom commute 10 flights a week, most popular route = 26 miles long - always comes out very well. And that's despite having a customer proposition below that of BA (e.g. lower baggage allowances, 100% buy-on-board). BA has 40 million passengers and 280 aircaft, round numbers.
But you can see how Jet2 does well here - it goes to the destinations that middle class Brits, perhaps slightly older travellers want to go to (almost all flights are UK to Europe), it has a very high direct employed staffing level, low turnover of staff, and fly from airports other than LHR and LGW. Their only London airport is Stansted. There is quite a lot BA could learn from Jet2, not least their interest-free payment arrangements for flights only. But it is a fairly limited airline - they don't do many of the things that we in this forum take for granted, whether frequent flyer schemes, lounges, baggage allowances, or route footprint. The staffing is the big thing. Jet2 airport staff have big smiles and help you when you're struggling or can't see where to go. I flew through Heathrow a fortnight ago on my way to Germany, after several years away from T5; no beaming smiles, no signs saying where to go, no help with the check in machines, but I did get screamed at by some woman in a BA uniform and expensive shoes because I dared to ask her which queue applied to me. And then we get on board, on Jet2 they have the extra cabin crew and so, although it's BOB, it is efficient and everyone gets served. On my flight out to Germany I did get my thimble of water and three mini-pretzels but then...nothing. Not enough crew to get through an A321, the cart barely made it a third of the way through ET in a two-hour flight before it was time to land. Good job I didn't want a coffee. When Cruz started going down the cost-cutting LCC route, I said at the time it was a mistake. BA have overheads that make competing on price alone difficult, Wizz and Ryanair will always go that bit cheaper (EasyJet less so these days). And the way the seating changes at row 14 on the short-haul aircraft is just cringeworthy. I don't necessarily mind the Recaros as they give you more legroom, but it looks tawdry and it looks cheap and nasty. BA would be better differentiating on quality. A G&T that would cost BA a couple of quid wholesale (if that) would be enough to tempt me even if BA were £20 more expensive. It's why my last few BA flights have all been CityFlyer (hence not going to Heathrow): City security, an Embraer seat, and a glass of cheap plonk and I'll gladly pay the extra twenty quid. I don't fly enough to ever get above BAEC Pleb tier, or at least not on BA metal now BA don't fly to the Isle of Man. I get I'm probably not that valuable a customer. But still. It's funny how IEG have gone down the LCC route with all their brands and yet all their brands are equally* bad at it. (* OK, Vueling are actually much worse at it). |
Or put another way, Vueling are much better than BA at being sh*t- which they are :)
I am also one of those that would love to see newspapers re-introduced to the lounge. |
Originally Posted by IAN-UK
(Post 35417516)
Criticising the concept of the poll, its mechanics, and the analysis of the results is pointless. It doesn't purport to be a survey geared to produce focused results of any statistical significance.
Originally Posted by ermis177
(Post 35418774)
But how can someone be objective for products that they never tried and compare them with others?
Consumer perceptions of a brand can accrue without direct contact with a company. Hence "everyone knows" Toyotas are bulletproof cars, although some suffer battery fires and gulp oil; Americans "know" Wetherspoons are rubbish pubs despite never having been in one; and people "know" British Airways is an everyday nightmare but mainly experience BA via the BBC.
Originally Posted by SxMan
(Post 35417172)
Even if the number of serious complaints on social media were just 10% of what the level is currently, I think it would show that the airline has a serious customer service crisis on its hands.
But emotions about the brand and operational realities are two different things -- and Mr. Doyle's bruited "rebuild" is complicated by the fact that public emotions about a brand always lag reality. He could zero the cancellation rate tomorrow and people would be nattering for another five years about how they "know" BA is awful. |
Originally Posted by choosethedrew
(Post 35420026)
This is a massive loss IMO, especially given there's no IFE on what can be quite boring long-ish short hauls and not even the moving map to fixatedly stare at. A handful of nice magazines and newspapers easily whiled away the hours and often provided some good reading well into the trip.
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Originally Posted by Arctic Troll
(Post 35420115)
Jet2 do what British Airways should do. Jet2 employ their own ground staff, they employ higher numbers of cabin crew, and when you're on a package holiday (as most Jet2 customers will be, to be honest) you get 23kg hold luggage included (I almost said thrown in, but that's also a Heathrow added extra).
BA have been struggling with a bit of an identity crisis in recent years. Are they To Fly To Serve? Well, yes, except when DNA-derived cost-cutting means it makes sense to remove catering from short-haul economy, or removing dedicated staff members at outstations with ticketing abilities, or removing papers, or any of the other cuts in recent years. It's encouraging that the new CEO wants to return BA to its status as a premium airline. But I'd humbly suggest what is perhaps even more important is a long term vision and mission of who and what BA is (a premium airline? a low-cost competitor? something in the middle?) that can outlast any one leader. |
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