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-   -   Latest BA report card - a mediocre airline (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/2128501-latest-ba-report-card-mediocre-airline.html)

jeremyBA Jul 16, 2023 11:48 am

I travel a lot on easyJet mostly gatwick / Palma.

I have flight club so I get free changes. That is massive to me.

I have the plus card so I am usually in row 1/2 and have a large hand baggage included.

they are rarely late. Sometimes a big but noting show stopping.

the crew are always pleasant.

if they cancel a flight you can book a flight anywhere on there network at any time as a replacement. This has served me well. It is all online.

what don’t I like ? They model is following Ryanair. Everything is now extra ( large hand baggage used to be included with upfront seats and the cost is daft ( £40ish ) but plus card don’t pay it. Checkout offers me insurance. Car hire etc etc etc.

it is usually less than half ba price on this route. So I can’t really see why anyone would pay more to travel ba.

my daughter at this moment is on ba club Europe lhr to pmi. Avios flight. The north lounge was full and she was sent to the main lounge. They let her in but if was packed. The flight is 1:30 late. She now misses diner with us.

now I paid close to noting for it and used avios as there was a good chance she would not travel. But if you are paying more than easyJet there has to be some expectation of something better - and mostly it is not !

ermis177 Jul 16, 2023 1:25 pm


Originally Posted by TTmex (Post 35417778)
In fairness, it's commonly implied on this forum that grass is perfectly green on the other side.

Quite the opposite. Where do i start? Completely poor arguments such as 'suppy chain issues due to the pandemic' ' due to brexit' ' BA cant offer proper food in premium classes due to the covid restrictions' and so on. Furthermore people that have a different opinion about BA on FT they usually get all sort of 'attacks' from a few profiles such as 'fly another airline'. The recent thread about the the kosher meal shown the true colours for some FT members ' are you entirely serious' 'its only 25 minutes flight' 'BA cant provide this kind of meal for this route, its on their website' 'move on' and other totally irrelevant and false arguments.
There is a general consensus that BA is not what it used to be 15 years ago. Especially for people that do not hold some kind of status the experience tend to be worse than many legacy carries.

TTmex Jul 16, 2023 1:37 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418429)
Quite the opposite. Where do i start? Completely poor arguments such as 'suppy chain issues due to the pandemic' ' due to brexit' ' BA cant offer proper food in premium classes due to the covid restrictions' and so on. Furthermore people that have a different opinion about BA on FT they usually get all sort of 'attacks' from a few profiles such as 'fly another airline'. The recent thread about the the kosher meal shown the true colours for some FT members ' are you entirely serious' 'its only 25 minutes flight' 'BA cant provide this kind of meal for this route, its on their website' 'move on' and other totally irrelevant and false arguments.
There is a general consensus that BA is not what it used to be 15 years ago. Especially for people that do not hold some kind of status the experience tend to be worse than many legacy carries.

I think you're missing my point. I'm not excusing BA here. I am just mentioning that we need a greater comparison and that quite often we're told that other airlines are better, but the facts don't always support that, as shown by the data from last summer in which BA performed far better than some of it's main rivals. I'm not denying that BA is performing badly, I'm just questioning if the claims of other airlines getting it all right. If they truly did always get it right, surely everyone would be flying them?
​​​​
Your reply with a load of cherry picked points from other threads was as predicable as a BA delay at the moment.

ermis177 Jul 16, 2023 1:46 pm


Originally Posted by TTmex (Post 35418459)
I think you're missing my point. I'm not excusing BA here. I am just mentioning that we need a greater comparison and that quite often we're told that other airlines are better, but the facts don't always support that, as shown by the data from last summer in which BA performed far better than some of it's main rivals. I'm not denying that BA is performing badly, I'm just questioning if the claims of other airlines getting it all right. If they truly did always get it right, surely everyone would be flying them?
​​​​
Your reply with a load of cherry picked points from other threads was as predicable as a BA delay at the moment.

If thats what you understood from the survey then you missed the point completely. The survey is not about which airline is getting all right... Regarding my reply i hope you do not mind if i express my opinion like everyone does. The difference is that i am being objective here not just repeat the usual 'BA is fantastic' tune.

PETER01 Jul 16, 2023 2:16 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418429)
Quite the opposite. Where do i start? Completely poor arguments such as 'suppy chain issues due to the pandemic' ' due to brexit' ' BA cant offer proper food in premium classes due to the covid restrictions' and so on. Furthermore people that have a different opinion about BA on FT they usually get all sort of 'attacks' from a few profiles such as 'fly another airline'. The recent thread about the the kosher meal shown the true colours for some FT members ' are you entirely serious' 'its only 25 minutes flight' 'BA cant provide this kind of meal for this route, its on their website' 'move on' and other totally irrelevant and false arguments.
There is a general consensus that BA is not what it used to be 15 years ago. Especially for people that do not hold some kind of status the experience tend to be worse than many legacy carries.

Genuine question, whose general consensus is this?

It seems there is some difficulty in accepting that others have different viewpoints as for example the Kosher thread. Anyhow, back on topic.....

As for the 'survey' I'm sceptical but I agree BA have IT issues. As for the cancellations they're very low overall and some are outwith BAs control (weather, strikes)

The likes of KARFA and many others who fly very frequently to me supports the fact that the 1-2% of flights cancelled have generally speaking minimal impact. Hopefully the BA Pilot shortage will be resolved soon.

bd95 Jul 16, 2023 2:24 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 35417411)
I'm slightly surprised that this experience has so far escaped you, but I would certainly suggest you try them. There again your side of London isn't so well served by Jet2 services.

Who is participating in these surveys? From what I can make out it is something like a 60 year old married man, homeowner, retired or nearly so. One trip a year to Spain, another skiing or perhaps a city break to Kraków, both with the wife. They are going to check in luggage, they aren't going to looking at Avios, if they want a lounge or meal they will just pay the relevant extras or more likely prefer to not spend money on that. As occasional travellers they make a go at OLCI and kiosk check-in but are pleased to see lots of Jet2 staff around them with large "Happy to Help" badges. The couple naturally arrive perhaps a little early for their flight, so they have the time to peruse the holiday brochure at the on-airport travel agency at most UK check-n areas, and tuck the brochure into their cabin bag. On board Jet2 have 1 or 2 extra cabin crew member over the BA equivalent, 5 crew on the 737-300, 148 passengers, compared to 4 BA crew on 160 passenger A320. At this point the couple probably succumb to a tea and sandwich, on board sales are a big deal for Jet2 hence the staffing and the encouragement to buy. Because it's a 100% point to point airline it's almost certain their bags will be waiting at the carousel.

Now this is quite a particular archetype traveller, which may not resonate with many BA travellers, but this sort of traveller is likely to be quite satisfied with the Jet2 offer, allowing them to go to the places they want to visit.

While I admire the critical appraisal of such surveys, I’m not sure that stereotyping passenger groups is valid either.

I am a lot less than 60, not married, A1 passenger from a U.K. region and I would rate Jet2 much higher than BA.

I have been a GCH in the past, previously matched from bmi, then under my own steam, then as a partner card from a GGL. Now I’m a “natural” silver. I’m 15 mins from BHD and 90 mins from DUB (and about 40ish from BFS for Jet2).

I retain a preference for BA to London, usually LCY partly due to having status and mostly due to convenience of onward transfer. On a recent work-related trip I went EZY to LGW as LCY and LHR were sold out and also it was £280 rtn vs >£600 when seats came back on sale next day for BA! For Europe I’ll look at all options, as not all destinations are served from NI, but where direct and served Jet2 are top of the list. For long haul it’s usually DUB, or more recently KL or LH ex-BHD I’d price and schedule suit.

Jet2 have civilised schedules, usually a departure around 8 or 9, with return from the Canaries or Costas around tea time. I usually travel HBO. You can book decent seats for a small amount. They do BOB but prices and availability are pretty good. I rate them a lot higher than EZY or FR. I usually check EI and other from DUB but usually Jet2 beat them on the same routes on a combination of convenience and price.

And here’s the killer….. we were on holidays in Lanzarote (flight only with Jet2, independently booked hotel) when lockdown hit in 2020. No panic. No issues. I was by the pool on Saturday when I saw a tweet saying Jet2 had turned their fleet back to the U.K. mid flight. Within a few minutes they sent a text saying there were no problems, check in as usual next day. They just didn’t want to bring any more people out (as a package holiday business). They positioned empty from BFS next day for our flight home. I had friends booked with other airlines who had a mad scramble to get home. Yes, that’s an unusual circumstance but Jet2’s handling of that flight, and some since during the pandemic, has won my loyalty (if they are flying where I’m going) for now…..

FWIW I see a huge range of passengers on Jet2 from all ages, classes, technical abilities and social situations. Yes, Jet2’s higher staffing levels are very evident on the ground and in the air. A little bit of snobbery exists in this thread…..

corporate-wage-slave Jul 16, 2023 2:57 pm


Originally Posted by bd95 (Post 35418552)
While I admire the critical appraisal of such surveys, I’m not sure that stereotyping passenger groups is valid either.

I will just clarify two points if I may: the archetype I used related not to the airline, but to those who participated in the Daily Telegraph (30,000 Telegraph readers) and Which? surveys. And if it didn't come across, I too have a high regard for Jet2, not least that they did the right thing by their staff during the Pandemic, but it won't get me to Cincinnati, among other things.

GM1985 Jul 16, 2023 2:59 pm


Originally Posted by Jagboi (Post 35418004)
Not really surprising is it? If my flight is late and my baggage is lost, that's an inconvenience for me. If someone else on a different flight was on time and their baggage was delivered before they got to the carousel that's irrelevant for my flight and my experience.

I saw a similar sort of methodology for rating the reliability of cars. If the cigarette lighter in my car doesn't work, but I don't smoke and I never use it as a power source, then it's not counted a defect for me - I'd never know if it worked or not, and it doesn't matter. If someone else bought the same car and wanted to use the cigarette lighter as a power source, then it would be a defect, as it affects that owner.

It’s not. But it does show how these determinations are more emotional than they are rational. It’s the classic halo/horn effect in action.

And it’s not something I’m immune to myself. A few years ago my main route for work travel to the US was on United because there was an EWR service from my home airport. Almost every trip involved delays, misconnections, diversions, surly staff, you name it. I vowed never to darken United’s door again and switched to BA/AA.

Now, I know UA are objectively nowhere near as bad as my perception of them is. They fly millions of people who are happy to pay them and no doubt get there comfortably and on time.

Curiously enough though, I’ve never felt particularly compelled to lurk on the UA board and tell the members there why I think the airline they frequent is terrible. For reasons I can’t quite fathom, BA does attend to attract a bit of the “love to hate” phenomenon.

KARFA Jul 16, 2023 3:09 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418483)
If thats what you understood from the survey then you missed the point completely. The survey is not about which airline is getting all right... Regarding my reply i hope you do not mind if i express my opinion like everyone does. The difference is that i am being objective here not just repeat the usual 'BA is fantastic' tune.

everybody thinks their opinion is “objective” ;)

Very strawman, don’t think anyone has said BA is fantastic.

choosethedrew Jul 16, 2023 3:10 pm

Come from nowhere and deliver something OK, you will be loved. Come from greatness and deliver something mediocre, you will inevitably be hated.

TTmex Jul 16, 2023 3:22 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418483)
If thats what you understood from the survey then you missed the point completely. The survey is not about which airline is getting all right... Regarding my reply i hope you do not mind if i express my opinion like everyone does. The difference is that i am being objective here not just repeat the usual 'BA is fantastic' tune.

Thanks for providing today's entertainment. IMHO, you are about as objective as Alex Cruz is good at Customer Experience. I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion and encourage that, but please don't try and play the "I'm objective" and "you're unfairly attacking me or others" cards when you meet opinions that don't agree with yours.

ermis177 Jul 16, 2023 3:40 pm


Originally Posted by KARFA (Post 35418664)
everybody thinks their opinion is “objective” ;)

Very strawman, don’t think anyone has said BA is fantastic.

I am not sure how objective someone can be when the 90%+ of their flights are with BA (or any specific airline) or when the last flight they took was in 2000.

KARFA Jul 16, 2023 3:46 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418727)
I am not sure how objective someone can be when the 90%+ of their flights are with BA (or any specific airline) or when the last flight they took was in 2000.

I don’t think you understand what objectivity is based on that argument.

And if you are going to diminish others opinions on the basis of how much you assume they fly, then surely you must allow others to subject you to the same test, please provide the details of your flights.

ermis177 Jul 16, 2023 3:48 pm


Originally Posted by TTmex (Post 35418686)
Thanks for providing today's entertainment. IMHO, you are about as objective as Alex Cruz is good at Customer Experience. I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion and encourage that, but please don't try and play the "I'm objective" and "you're unfairly attacking me or others" cards when you meet opinions that don't agree with yours.

Not a problem its always amazing when i see people trying to defend a product with all sorts of irrelevant and poor arguments. I will give you an example how subjective this forum is. Many years ago BA won some kind of 'wine cellar of the year'. FT members made a thread and praise BA for that. Next year of a few years after BA did not win anything during the same competition. The same people told us that something 'fishy' might be going on and that the assessors might be taking a cut. Ridiculous.

KARFA Jul 16, 2023 3:51 pm


Originally Posted by ermis177 (Post 35418749)
Not a problem its always amazing when i see people trying to defend a product with all sorts of irrelevant and poor arguments. I will give you an example how subjective this forum is. Many years ago BA won some kind of 'wine cellar of the year'. FT members made a thread and praise BA for that. Next year of a few years after BA did not win anything during the same competition. The same people told us that something 'fishy' might be going on and that the assessors might be taking a cut. Ridiculous.

we are lucky to have you with your uniquely objective opinions :)


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