Denied boarding over pregnancy fit to fly letter - who is right?
Aug 20, 2019, 1:18 am
#76
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Since you were forced to seek additional medical advice, I do hope you will add those costs to your claim from BA.
Aug 20, 2019, 3:40 am
#77
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You don't fire someone for making a mistake. That is not a "Just culture". You fire people for malfeasance or gross negligence, not mistakes.
If you fire someone for making a mistake then you just have to hire someone else, train them even more, and hope they don't make mistakes. You also have employees who exist in fear of being fired for a simple error.
Aug 20, 2019, 4:26 am
#78
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BA has wrongfully denied the passenger boarding. Hence, BA owes the full EC261/2004 compensation of EUR 600.
I cannot see an extraordinary circumstance, which could waive this obligation.
"safety of the flight" is not an extraordinary circumstance.
I cannot see an extraordinary circumstance, which could waive this obligation.
"safety of the flight" is not an extraordinary circumstance.
Aug 20, 2019, 5:05 am
#79
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Birth tourism.
The reason why I asked for the passport and ticket detail is my thought was could that GA feel something some issues and IDBed OP's party for such suspicion.
While I am not a 100% British (OP would know why), British nationality is complicated. In short - OP's baby would be a British citizen by descent anyway regardless of places of birth (but British citizen otherwise by descent if born in the U.K.). But an overpowered GA may not know that. Hence, the possibility of IDB to avoid fines.
The reason why I asked for the passport and ticket detail is my thought was could that GA feel something some issues and IDBed OP's party for such suspicion.
While I am not a 100% British (OP would know why), British nationality is complicated. In short - OP's baby would be a British citizen by descent anyway regardless of places of birth (but British citizen otherwise by descent if born in the U.K.). But an overpowered GA may not know that. Hence, the possibility of IDB to avoid fines.
UK citizenship is obtained by descent (jus sanginis) or legal mechanisms of naturalisation. Being born in the UK gets you nothing.
The UK has no problem with people coming to the UK to give birth as long as they pay their way themselves and leave the UK afterwards.
I'm afraid you're making rather incorrect-sounding statements above, and also stretching to the idea that the checkin agents may have decided to try to enforce rules and principles that don't exist.
Aug 20, 2019, 6:26 am
#80
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If the checkin agents have decided to make up their own immigration rules for the UK then they need some serious attitude adjustment.
UK citizenship is obtained by descent (jus sanginis) or legal mechanisms of naturalisation. Being born in the UK gets you nothing.
The UK has no problem with people coming to the UK to give birth as long as they pay their way themselves and leave the UK afterwards.
I'm afraid you're making rather incorrect-sounding statements above, and also stretching to the idea that the checkin agents may have decided to try to enforce rules and principles that don't exist.
UK citizenship is obtained by descent (jus sanginis) or legal mechanisms of naturalisation. Being born in the UK gets you nothing.
The UK has no problem with people coming to the UK to give birth as long as they pay their way themselves and leave the UK afterwards.
I'm afraid you're making rather incorrect-sounding statements above, and also stretching to the idea that the checkin agents may have decided to try to enforce rules and principles that don't exist.
And based on your statement, I'm afraid you have no actual idea on British nationality law. At the minimum, there is actually at least one more way to obtain British citizenship. And citizenship by descent is not automatic, at least not until certain conditions have been met.
Aug 20, 2019, 8:24 am
#81
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Going out of UK and then back again doesn't seem like part of a plan to exploit birth tourism in the UK.
Aug 20, 2019, 8:35 am
#82
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Since the USA does grant citizenship to most people born here (exceptions would be if the parents are diplomats stationed here, for example), if there's concern about birth tourism, that would have been a reason to get the OP onto the first possible flight, not deny boarding, but a GA's politics should not influence their decisions made on behalf of their employer.
Aug 20, 2019, 9:02 am
#83
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The initial post by the OP was misleading - they’re travelling on BA218 DEN >LHR. However birth tourism can mean that you don’t want to be born in the USA and acquire US citizenship jus soli (ie by place of birth) if you’re entitled to say UK citizenship because being a US citizen means you’re taxed on your worldwide earnings by the IRS wherever you live. Our esteemed PM was born in New York and before he gave up his US citizenship had to settle a large CGT bill on a U.K. property with them.
If you’re a UK citizen living abroad you may want your child to be born in the UK so your child’s children, if they are born outside the UK, can pass on their UK citizenship. The children of British citizens by descent (usually those born abroad) have different rights to pass on Uk citizenship from those born in the U.K.
If you’re a UK citizen living abroad you may want your child to be born in the UK so your child’s children, if they are born outside the UK, can pass on their UK citizenship. The children of British citizens by descent (usually those born abroad) have different rights to pass on Uk citizenship from those born in the U.K.
Aug 20, 2019, 9:08 am
#84
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What a strange thread this has become.
We've gone from a relatively minor in the scheme of things (no disrespect to the OP and his good lady) mistake from a contract gate agent (that has been recognised as such by both the Station Manager and BA medical services) to it becoming a one person campaign from said gate agent against birth tourism in the UK!
We've even has the 'should be sacked' comment as well which is almost traditional now in any thread involving a BA error.
To me it is quite clear the OP and his wife were IDBd (and whilst the OPs wife was in effect the only one denied no husband is going to leave their pregnant wife alone in a foreign country) so I;d say he was IDBd as well) and BA owe them for that plus they should also be paying for their hotel and any US medical bills they may have had plus fulsome apologies from management at BA not just a cut and paste from customer relations.
We've gone from a relatively minor in the scheme of things (no disrespect to the OP and his good lady) mistake from a contract gate agent (that has been recognised as such by both the Station Manager and BA medical services) to it becoming a one person campaign from said gate agent against birth tourism in the UK!
We've even has the 'should be sacked' comment as well which is almost traditional now in any thread involving a BA error.
To me it is quite clear the OP and his wife were IDBd (and whilst the OPs wife was in effect the only one denied no husband is going to leave their pregnant wife alone in a foreign country) so I;d say he was IDBd as well) and BA owe them for that plus they should also be paying for their hotel and any US medical bills they may have had plus fulsome apologies from management at BA not just a cut and paste from customer relations.
Aug 20, 2019, 11:36 am
#85
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The idea that a gate agent would deny boarding in order to prevent someone from applying the nationality law of another country is the most ridiculous thing I have heard this month.
It is quite likely that the baby will be both British and American, so even if a gate agent had this in mind, they would be unsuccessful in their mistaken endeavour.
If the OP's wife, a US citizen, has lived in the US for more than 5 years of her life (at least 2 of those years being after she attained 14 years of age), the baby will be a US citizen even if born in the UK and even if they never take any steps to inform the US of this birth, and therefore will be liable for US taxation regardless of residence in the future.
If the OP was born in the UK, the baby will be automatically British even if it is born in the US.
As someone with no association with the US, the last thing I would want is for my child to accidentally be born in the US - therefore we did not travel out of the UK after 24 weeks of pregnancy (and we need to apply to BA to retain our statuses for next year, but that is for another thread).
It is quite likely that the baby will be both British and American, so even if a gate agent had this in mind, they would be unsuccessful in their mistaken endeavour.
If the OP's wife, a US citizen, has lived in the US for more than 5 years of her life (at least 2 of those years being after she attained 14 years of age), the baby will be a US citizen even if born in the UK and even if they never take any steps to inform the US of this birth, and therefore will be liable for US taxation regardless of residence in the future.
If the OP was born in the UK, the baby will be automatically British even if it is born in the US.
As someone with no association with the US, the last thing I would want is for my child to accidentally be born in the US - therefore we did not travel out of the UK after 24 weeks of pregnancy (and we need to apply to BA to retain our statuses for next year, but that is for another thread).
Aug 20, 2019, 12:00 pm
#86
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As someone with no association with the US, the last thing I would want is for my child to accidentally be born in the US - therefore we did not travel out of the UK after 24 weeks of pregnancy (and we need to apply to BA to retain our statuses for next year, but that is for another thread).
Aug 20, 2019, 12:44 pm
#87
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Well this took a strange turn on whilst I was on the flight!
Thanks for pointing out the error in my initial post, which I have corrected to show the routing as DEN-LHR.
As for the whole birth tourism saga - aside from the fact that is well beyond the remit of a check in agent - we were travelling home to the UK where we live. Given our circumstances, the baby will have both UK and US citizenship anyway. I really think this just comes down to the check in agent misunderstanding/misinterpreting the rules, nothing more or less.
Making the claim tomorrow, I will post the results in due course. Thanks for everyone’s input.
Thanks for pointing out the error in my initial post, which I have corrected to show the routing as DEN-LHR.
As for the whole birth tourism saga - aside from the fact that is well beyond the remit of a check in agent - we were travelling home to the UK where we live. Given our circumstances, the baby will have both UK and US citizenship anyway. I really think this just comes down to the check in agent misunderstanding/misinterpreting the rules, nothing more or less.
Making the claim tomorrow, I will post the results in due course. Thanks for everyone’s input.
Last edited by Jamieharvey; Aug 20, 2019 at 1:11 pm
Aug 20, 2019, 3:04 pm
#89
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Just do whatever they want is sufficient enough. Believe me - it is tougher than it sounds.
Aug 20, 2019, 3:14 pm
#90
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To be fair, the risk of your kid having to pay US taxes for life, and file an annual US tax return, even if it never sets foot in the US after the day it was born, is good enough reason to get back to the UK ASAP :-)